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Online degrees accepted?
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sicklyman



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 930

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Angry Brit wrote:
Quote:
[quote="sicklyman] oh and I'm also a Brit. At no time did any Saudi official require anything like what VS describes.

I'm afraid you're mistaken sicklyman if you believe Brits are exempt from discrimination of online degrees. The rule applies to all. Now whether or not it's enforced depends on the institution or the office authorizing the visa. It's possible a person gets a visa or is hired based on other qualifications, like a Delta for example. A good qualification that demonstrates a commitment to the profession - nothing about an ability to teach.

don't be afraid, I don't believe that at all. I take it you have a DELTA and that you speak from experience when you say it says nothing about the ability to teach. Wink
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The Angry Brit



Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickleyman wrote: "oh and I'm also a Brit"

It just seems... I don't know; pompous is maybe too cliché, but certainly a little bloated. I mean what was the point?

The DELTA will introduce teaching skills, provide opportunities to practice, and even assist improving natural talent, but let's be honest, you're not being rewarded for ability. You've paid the money, you've completed the requirements, so you'll get your certification. I stand by my earlier comment... it's more a testament to your commitment. You may still suck as a teacher.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently saw a blog about this issue; the author suggested that an online degree from an accredited university could possibly be accepted by the Saudi government if:
    1) The university registrar clearly states in his/her verification letter to the cultural mission that the degree program's course content and requirements are the same regardless if taken online or onsite; or

    2) The Saudi employer submits an official letter to the cultural mission requesting this specific degree requirement be waived because the applicant's skills are highly necessary for the position.
Obviously, the first situation is doable. Whether the Saudi government bites it is a toss up.
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sicklyman



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 930

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Angry Brit wrote:
sickleyman wrote: "oh and I'm also a Brit"

It just seems... I don't know; pompous is maybe too cliché, but certainly a little bloated. I mean what was the point?

er.... the point was that it may differ from what nomad soul describes as she was describing the US perspective. believe me, I'm the last person who would be "pompous" or "bloated" about being from the UK.

I did my DELTA back in 2005. You may be right about how the DELTA is run now if things have changed and, as with all Cambridge ESOL, there is a certain amount of hoop jumping. But as you encouraged me to be honest, I will: back then, if you couldn't actually take concepts and help other people to assimilate them into their own lives in a way that suits them and within a specific time limit, you wouldn't have passed the course.

When and where did you do the course?
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The Angry Brit



Joined: 27 Mar 2014
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sicklyman wrote: "take concepts and help other people to assimilate them into their own lives in a way that suits them..."

Not sure what that means. But I'll say this, Cambridge exerts vigorously ever effort to maintain uniform standards in all their DELTA programs worldwide. So where and when I took it is irrelevant.
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gorkomi



Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A company in Saudi says that part of their package is offering a subsidized online Masters. What's the point, then?
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TesolTime wrote:
Why would any uni agree to this BIZARRE demand? Online degrees are a great source of income to to schools nowadays. By submitting this information, they would be allowing KSA to discriminate against their programs and students, and then loose lots of money from nervous students who wouldn't want to take their online courses.


My University refused. They probably felt that why should a major research institution have to comply with another institution associated with a country that probably has one of the poorest educational systems in the world.
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ttxor1



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

refused to issue a "method of instruction" letter? how did you get around this with the SACM?
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttxor1 wrote:
refused to issue a "method of instruction" letter? how did you get around this with the SACM?


I gave up. Around three months later the visa arrived. I wasn't even informed by the agency that handled my visa that they sent it.
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ttxor1



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plumpy nute wrote: They probably felt that why should a major research institution have to comply with another institution associated with a country that probably has one of the poorest educational systems in the world.

update on method of instruction letter! i posted somewhere else that I submitted a doc that said, in part, "his studies took place in the School of Education which is in the Faculty of Social Sciences" as part of my method of instruction letter and "graduation verification letter" as my uni doesn't participate in the US based Nat'l Student Clearinghouse. I got a call Very Happy from the lady handling my paperwork in the SACM saying they are questioning my doc!

I was stunned that I was getting a call on my cellphone from a gov't agency. i was angry that they were questioning the authenticity of a doc from a uni that would easily beat any Saudi uni in int'l rankings.

the SACM Administrator was polite, kind and helpful. She looked back over the doc, said, "this should be sufficient." I asked another question and she got back to me via email in like 5 mins. Totally professional, accessible and friendly. I am a direct hire with a major gov't uni.

a week or so later, i got an email saying the doc has been accepted. Whew!
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttxor1 wrote:
update on method of instruction letter! i posted somewhere else that I submitted a doc that said, in part, "his studies took place in the School of Education which is in the Faculty of Social Sciences" as part of my method of instruction letter and "graduation verification letter" as my uni doesn't participate in the US based Nat'l Student Clearinghouse. I got a call Very Happy from the lady handling my paperwork in the SACM saying they are questioning my doc!

I was stunned that I was getting a call on my cellphone from a gov't agency. i was angry that they were questioning the authenticity of a doc from a uni that would easily beat any Saudi uni in int'l rankings.

It has nothing to do with the "standing" of the university; the process is the same regardless. Also, keep in mind that they also authenticate the degrees of Saudi students as well---some of who have attended big name US/UK universities.
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ttxor1



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

true, true, Nomad Soul. good to stay humble, for sure.

let me be clear: I am not on this site to pretend to be an expert. I don't post to show off. i just went through a tough time, and reached out to complete strangers and they helped me. i am so grateful to them that i want to do the same for others, if possible.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ironically, the SACM's guidelines about online degree programs and courses for Saudi students attending US universities are as follows:
    Online degree programs are strictly forbidden.

    Online courses may be permissible through the approval of the SACM Academic Advisor. The student must supply a valid and convincing reason for electing to take an online course. Examples of acceptable grounds for taking an online course include:
    -- The necessary course is not available in the students university.
    -- The timing of a classroom based alternative to the online course is not viable for the student.

    Furthermore, Undergraduate and Graduate students are restricted to 6 hours of online courses.

Source: http://www.sacm.org/Departments/GeneralInformation.aspx
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