Job Discussion Forums

[Coolguy123]

Hi,

After my CELTA teacher recommended reading as much of this book as possible, I've been having some issues getting through the grammar in this book. It feels like something akin to reading the dictionary or going through a set of encyclopedias.

Any tips on getting through it? I've tried copying out some of the entries to help me retain the info, but it's so tedious I can't keep focused on this huge tome for long.

[Shroob]

[nomad soul]

I agree with Shroob. No need to torture yourself by trying to slog through Practical English Usage. It's meant to be a reference book and not a course book. Try doing some practical exercises (whether online or from a workbook) to test your knowledge and point out your strengths and weaknesses. Similarly, lesson plans from the British Council's site and various, well-established ESL-focused sites (including this one) can be quite useful in learning grammar points; they're student centered which allows you to learn from the perspective of a student. Plus, you'll pick up some good ideas for activities for your own classroom.

[Cool Teacher]

Hee hee! the book says its a reference book like a dictionary!

SPOILER At the end is yes and no/contractiding:

"It is raining". No it's not!

[Coolguy123]

[fluffyhamster]

I only have the Second edition, but I think the Third of PEU has retained the Glossary. If so, I'd go through that at least. There are also diagnostic tests in the front matter of the Third, that might be worth a quick look. Other than that, just flick through, stopping briefly at the more grammar-titled (rather than lexical/word-based) entries. I don't have the book to hand, but in for example the A section, that would very likely include entries such as 'adverbs', 'articles', and 'auxiliary verbs'. Oh, and this is very useful: http://folk.uio.no/hhasselg/terms.html

If you want a proper read-through course in mainstream modern grammar then try books like Leech et al's English Grammar for Today. Or you could get a (read-through) grammar that builds from word to discourse level, such as the very functional Collins COBUILD English Grammar (there's also a somewhat abridged Student's edition with explanations facing exercises a la Murphy). The differences in terminology in the COBUILD are only very slight e.g. noun group rather than noun phrase, IIRC.

[Mr. English]

I have the third (also called New International Students') edition (and why they call things "new" when they will be anything but in short order is unknown to me); helluva good book but certainly not made to "read" like a novel. It is of course a reference book; would you "read" a dictionary? And I agree, the "130 common mistakes" section close to the front is in fact worth reading. An outstanding book for everything from educating yourself to answering the weirdball questions that come up with advanced students.

[fluffyhamster]

Oops, common mistakes rather than diagnostic tests. I might've been thinking of Swan & Walter's How English Works.

[coledavis]

I know it's rather late in the day for you, but I have never understood why people try to learn with a dictionary type object like Swann. Parrott's Grammar for English Language Teachers is arranged into chapters so you can read it like a real book. It has exercises as well.

You are still unlikely to absorb everything, by the way. That usually happens after you've been teaching for a while and perhaps have later taken in something more advanced like Michael Lewis's The English Verb, which takes you beyond the details to more general truths about grammar.

[fat_chris]

"Practical English Usage" is indeed Michael's Swan song.

May I recommend…THE GRAMMAR BOOK?

The tome! I love it.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Grammar-Book-Teachers-Edition/dp/0838447252/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396250328&sr=8-1&keywords=The+Grammar+Book



Warm regards,
fat_chris

[fluffyhamster]

It's a shame that Lewis hasn't written a full grammar, but perhaps the other books from LTP (e.g. Lewis' revision of Close's A Teacher's Grammar, and Lewis & Hill's Murphy-alike Grammar and Practice) are meant to cover everything beyond the verb phrase.

I like The Grammar Book, but it's not really suitable for CELTA level (or that's what most would say, rather than my own opinion, but I have to say I'm inclined to agree). Many trainees would doubtless baulk at the IMHO unnecessary phrase structure rules transforming into tree diagrams and the like, and the findings from discourse would likely be wasted or hard to introduce ('You're overcomplicating and beginning to "explain too much" for this level'). Plus it is simply a big book, "too much" to read and get through (I'd have no objection to TRAINERS doing some of the heavy lifting by presenting or making available some potted findings from such works though). Mind you, there are some rather duff and too-mechanical suggested activities in it that would probably fit right in in many a TP session.

[grahamb]

Swan's book is about usage, hence the title. I second coledavis regarding Parrott. Another good grammar is Leech & Svartvik's Communicative Grammar. Leech's Meaning and the English Verb is a slim tome that packs a punch.

[fluffyhamster]

Let's keep in mind the immediate and presumably pressing needs of the OP: a one-volume grammar~usage reference comprehensive enough for the CELTA and beyond. And (but) they've already bought Swan, a common CELTA recommendation regardless, and are just wondering how to get more out of it than quick reference.

I like all the books that have been mentioned, but the Parrott doesn't seem comprehensive enough (though I'm sure it's a good course for teachers, perhaps better even than the Leech et al I mentioned earlier), The Grammar Book as I say is a bit too detailed and contains arguable irrelevancies, while Lewis and Leech limit themselves to just the verb phrase. I'm really not sure about the Leech & Svartvik (I very rarely refer to it, and if you want a functional grammar my money is on the COBUILD).

But while we're throwing out suggestions for further reading I just thought I'd mention that Swan wrote an interesting little title (Grammar) in the OILS (Oxford Introductions to Language Study) series. It ranges further than most introductions to grammar do, addressing things like the possible origins of language and the (in)adequacy of linguistic theory, while giving a brisk overview of how grammar builds from simple to complex. Selected readings are provided and commented on. Worth a look at some point.

[LongShiKong]

[Coolguy123]

Great stuff guys, thanks for all the info. Does anyone know of any sources to get videos of lessons that I can watch to get ideas and such? Perhaps CELTA style lessons?