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Cost of Living - Grocery Realities
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
Meanwhile for those interested in facts, rather than Delph's opinions I think people should try the following.

1. Property and rentals www.oferty.net
2. Work offered and going rates www.nativespeaker.com.pl
3. Cost of living http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Poland
4. Wages (contrast/compare with prices in 3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage


1. Property in Poland is always overpriced on such portals. Knock 25% off for a more realistic, amount.
2. Only the desperate use nativespeaker.com.pl. Good teachers don't advertise there for a reason.
3. Only relevant if you have accurate wage figures.
4. Not relevant at all, average wage in Poland is about 25% less than it should be due to the huge black market here.

Quote:
For the record, please discard all the baseless, personal snipes he makes because EVERYTHING he has said about me is simply wrong. I rarely drink, my missus has a great job, I've never been asked to leave, Qatar Petroleum were certainly not glad to see the back of me (I left after 3 years) and Profi bent over backwards to keep me when I moved on to bigger and better things having been headhunted.


Wrong, or is it rather that you don't want people to know how you did a runner from Qatar, how you've got a huge drinking problem ("rarely drink".. Laughing) and how you live in Libya to stay off the booze?

Quote:
This guy doesn't know me, has never met me (he may well and good luck to him then)


Yawn. Another tedious implied threat of violence? Can't say I'm particularly scared of old drunken men with a tendency of violence.

Quote:
and no-one I actually worked with is in Poznan now, nor have they been for years.


Funnily enough, I have quite a few contacts within UAM. They remember you just fine.

Quote:
He has come across a few of the people I socialize with in the expat community in Poznan, no more and no less.For the record, they think he's a to55er.


"come across"? I'd say I know a few of them pretty well and for years. Fortunately, they know me well enough to call me a tosser to my face Laughing

At the end of the day, having to spend the vast majority of your life away from your family just to earn a few quid that you could earn in Poland is pretty damned miserable.
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iknowwhatiamtalkingabout



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DD seems to have a real problem with people drinking. Why? You mention it all the time. Like some kind of obsession.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowwhatiamtalkingabout wrote:
DD seems to have a real problem with people drinking. Why? You mention it all the time. Like some kind of obsession.


Usually it's a common theme among some TEFL types. They moan and whine about not having money, but when you dig into it, you realise that they've spent a considerable amount of cash on booze - and spent a lot of time doing it.
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 886
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delphian-domine wrote:
iknowwhatiamtalkingabout wrote:
DD seems to have a real problem with people drinking. Why? You mention it all the time. Like some kind of obsession.


Usually it's a common theme among some TEFL types. They moan and whine about not having money, but when you dig into it, you realise that they've spent a considerable amount of cash on booze - and spent a lot of time doing it.


I agree with DD's comment. I've poured too many teachers into cabs and talked away problems with cafe/bar patrons, students and admins to not recognize that, for whatever reason, TEFL attracts a higher percentage of those who have problems with drinking.

Maybe it's because they have failed at other careers, we're around our co-workers more due to the working environments (foreign countries/expats) or they just love cheap beer and vodka so they like going to lower economies to support their habit.

As mentioned, when someone complains about not making enough money in an environment where 100s of people are working and living my first thought is to look more closely at the individual's lifestyle and financial sense. I've worked with teachers that habitually drink 3-10 a day and when you add up the money it's staggering.

That said, if someone wants to drink and doesn't bitch and moan about having no money then it's not an issue but you gotta look at the way they live to understand why so many are doing it if nobody can survive like they claim.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecocks wrote:
I agree with DD's comment. I've poured too many teachers into cabs and talked away problems with cafe/bar patrons, students and admins to not recognize that, for whatever reason, TEFL attracts a higher percentage of those who have problems with drinking.


It may be a consequence of the lifestyle - for instance, that IH Katowice job with hours from 3:30 to 8:30pm almost encourages you to go out drinking afterwards because you've got all morning to sleep it off.

Quote:
Maybe it's because they have failed at other careers, we're around our co-workers more due to the working environments (foreign countries/expats) or they just love cheap beer and vodka so they like going to lower economies to support their habit.


Hard to say really. When you think that in Poland, one hour teaching (let's say 50zl for the sake of argument) is enough to buy 10 shots of 40-50ml vodka in a pub, then you can really see where the damage starts, especially if you don't have an early start the next day.

Quote:
As mentioned, when someone complains about not making enough money in an environment where 100s of people are working and living my first thought is to look more closely at the individual's lifestyle and financial sense. I've worked with teachers that habitually drink 3-10 a day and when you add up the money it's staggering.


I read an excellent book a while ago by some American guy about financial planning, and I remember it had a section about alcohol. The point made was that it's very difficult to stop at a pre-defined limit - you might go out with a 50zl note, but then you don't want to stop drinking, so you start putting the next drinks on your bank card. Been there, done that, and it's not pretty.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 781
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:24 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

In Libya to stay off the booze? You can drink every day in most desert countries as any vet will tell you. Oh I forgot, you've never actually been to Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi or Libya. Not one expat currently at UAM ever worked with me, so you are lying. However, you do know my old pal from Manchester and probably one or 2 of the Brummers, who I go out with. You know sweet fa about me plain and simple. It's a pathetic attempt to deflect the discussion about the cost of living in Poland, competition and pathetic incomes. In the 90's I had a good time in Poland like everyone else. We could because the wages were the same but it was much, much cheaper. I want to do more than just 'survive' Ecocks. It's exactly because my aspirations in my early 40's are different that I do what I do. When I was a snotty nosed 20 something, I didn't give a damn about the things I give a damn about now.

Now you are denying data on rock solid websites which have thousands of examples. Perhaps we should all bow in reverence to the data on your failed website. You talk like a big swinging dick but you're just a TEFL teacher like everyone else. Get over it. Met dozens of your type over the years; 'Yes, well, I'm an editor you see'. This translates as proofreader. All this bunk about you dealing with EU funding and advising expats! You're a TEFL teacher and you do stuff everyone here does, most of whom have been doing it for much much longer. Talk about selling sand to the arabs. This 'well if you get up at 5 , eat 300g of Cornflakes in 2.2 minutes, you will have precisely 5 to get to the 110 bus, which will get you to school at 6.49 and you can then cram in 17 hours before sleep' is just total bollox. You rant about buraks, gypsies, lousy teachers in Poznan and god knows what else. I think everyone on the boards knows you don't actually know me and have never met me, so insult away, it's just pathetic.

And Ecocks, for a long period of time, I rented a house in the UK, but spent years living in hotels in Poznan for 18 weeks and sometimes much more of every year due to the fact that I had a mum with a terminal illness in the Uk but a son n Poland. That commitment cost a lot. I'd have bought something much sooner had it been possible with a Polish bank re the mortgages, residency and you know the rest. However, it's all turned out rosy.
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wojbrian



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is real interesting.

I knew a few that had substance issues when I was there.

However, myself and most of the other people I knew didn't even drink.
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 886
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meanwhile, back in Poland.....
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 886
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:


And Ecocks, for a long period of time, I rented a house in the UK, but spent years living in hotels in Poznan for 18 weeks and sometimes much more of every year due to the fact that I had a mum with a terminal illness in the Uk but a son n Poland. That commitment cost a lot. I'd have bought something much sooner had it been possible with a Polish bank re the mortgages, residency and you know the rest. However, it's all turned out rosy.


WTH?

What makes you think this has anything to do with any issue I raised?

Re: Work Hours

Welcome to TEFL.

Most TEFL teachers spend a couple of years learning the ropes and figuring out their schedules. As DD says and countless thousands of others have mentioned, it's part of doing your time and building seniority. Nine years ago I would head for the metro at 6:50 so I could teach a 7:30 class at the school, then one or two more, before a 4 hour dead spot and then heading across town for a company session at 4:00. Two years ago I was up twice a week at 6am to catch a bus for the 50 minute ride to the oil terminal outside of town but this time I had been clear that the travel time was equivalent to 3 hours of contact time and it was counted as such in my workload. I did appreciate the oil company providing free breakfast and lunch though.

Re: Drinking in Poland and Elsewhere

As I have said I saw little evidence that Polish people are enamored with alcohol much beyond the European norm. The statistics show them in the teens when ranking countries based on alcohol consumption but people who drink will probably gravitate towards others who drink wherever they live.

Despite this being the Poland section, some can't quit talking about their own problems though.

Yeah, lots of folks drink and a few do drugs in the sand. The stories of easy to obtain heroin, khat and stills in apartments are common. Even in the better-run compounds there are lounges and pub-like rooms to relax at the end of the day, out-of-sight of the more fervent believers. Lesser employers (particularly in smaller towns) are reported to search living quarters periodically for stills and liquor.

However, they are working in a culture that prohibits drinking and the fanatics among your students (or co-workers) are watching. One of mine told me one reason he had selected me as a teacher was that he had surveyed my kitchen and refrigerator and noted that I had no beer or hard liquor. His tone of voice and facial expression when discussing his fellow Muslims who assisted in production and delivery of alcohol products was "enlightening".

The atmosphere could make it easier to not drink for some. For those who are alcoholics or lack the self-control to moderate it often backfires by providing an environment rife with rationalizations and enabling supporters who urge you to "have another" to get the edge off or make up for working in a Godforsaken pit.

While I don't mind working around alcoholics as long as they don't bring their problems to the office (or your desk and ear) the fact is that it is a disease that affects everyone around them despite their denial. The problem is the ones who are out-of-control. They're usually boring, loud, obnoxious and whiny. I prefer them quietly miserable and suffering off to the side where the impact on the environment is minimized.
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iknowwhatiamtalkingabout



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

ecocks wrote:
They're usually boring, loud, obnoxious and whiny.


I'd actually apply this to sanctimonious non-drinkers.

TEFL is not stuffed with crazed alcoholics. You sound like one of the drama queen teachers I had at school who would suggest that drinking beer was a one-way ticket to the gutter.
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 886
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, you sound like one of those guys who is in desperate denial.

Go figure.
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iknowwhatiamtalkingabout



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In denial about what?
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 886
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowwhatiamtalkingabout wrote:
In denial about what?


Realities.
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iknowwhatiamtalkingabout



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecocks wrote:
iknowwhatiamtalkingabout wrote:
In denial about what?


Realities.


Would it have been so difficult to just answer the question?
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 781
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

I'd rather be stranded on a desert island with someone who liked to cut loose from time to time rather than with someone who didn't that's for sure. Wait a minute. I am on a desert island and my colleagues do like to cut loose. TF for that.

It's the sanctimonious tone and pseudo Zen wisdom of some people on this board I think is risible. I think some of them really need to go to the pub a bit more often.
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