Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Work Permit Requirements May 2014
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Vietnam
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Riding One



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:22 am    Post subject: Work Permit Requirements May 2014 Reply with quote

Always dysfunctional, we have a move towards worse.

Work Permit requirements now require proven 5 years of experience.

This means, a recent graduate with an accredited degree in Science and Education with a CELTA, cannot get s work permit because he/she is say, 23 years old.

To have 5 years experience they would need to prove the five years experience and obviously be at least 27 years old.

Newly hired at one school cannot get a work permit, therefore were given only 3 month contracts and must leave after that as the authorities have mandated they have work permits.

If anything, this will benefit those of us here and hurt some younger new arrivals.

As noted elsewhere before, work permits have been reduced to 2 years (from the previous three) and they cannot be renewed, but applied for again.

IMO, the (il)logic is, it is better to keep foreigners illegally working, because they have no contractual rights. If they are cheated and stolen from they have no recourse in the courts in any way.

Welcome to VN.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 399

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was discussed briefly in another thread. I'm not sure what the current laws are, but it seems it's still possible to get work permits. I recently started working for a new school, and they are in the process of getting one for me. They haven't mentioned running into any trouble.

Although I do qualify for the 5 years of work experience, I haven't been asked to "prove" my previous job history. As I said in a previous thread, one school mentioned that the 5 years of experience is only required for full-time contracts. Most of the young, newbie teachers who come here aren't working much more than 20 hours a week, which is nowhere near full-time hours, so it may not affect them that much.

Overall, it's good news for those of us who have the experience. But in reality I think most schools will continue what they've been doing, in NOT getting teachers work permits. Hopefully, it will open up more positions in the few schools who do insist on legally hiring their teachers for those of us who qualify.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mockingyou



Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Posts: 6
Location: Oxford

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

23, BA in Geography, got a WP last week.

Welcome to Vietnam. It's not all doom and gloom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skarper



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed. There are the rules and then there is the 'practice'.

WP aren't meant to apply to English teachers IMO - only undesirable low paid low skilled construction workers and similar types.

We are few in number - we cause little trouble and do not take jobs away from Vietnamese. We also (some of us anyway) provide an essential service.

I wish the rules were clear and stable - but to echo the above poster - 'welcome to Vietnam.'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TRH



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 188
Location: HCMC

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skarper wrote:
WP aren't meant to apply to English teachers IMO - only undesirable low paid low skilled construction workers and similar types.


Isn't this contrary to the requirement that the employer must assert an inability to recruit local people to fill the positions? The idea that Vietnam would need even one low skilled worker from China is absurd.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skarper



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is precisely the point - TRH. They don't need or want the Chinese construction workers BUT the investors do prefer to employ them - hence the WP machinations.

None of it is aimed at us but we get caught in the shotgun blast - or are at least scared witless by the noise of it going off every few months...

It is absurd - welcome to Vietnam.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 399

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an update on this, i was recently talking to a friend who does the work permit paperwork for all the new teachers at her school, and she was telling that finding new teachers is getting almost impossible because of these new laws. She said that tidy had recently flown a teacher over and spent a lot of money on her only to find the department of labor was denying her a work permit because she only had one year of experience. She even offered the extra coffee money, but they still said no.

She went on to say that since they're a new school, its impossible to get around the law. Only schools with good relationships with the DoL are getting free passes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Riding One



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the govt is basically trying to put on the squeeze again and make it too difficult to get a work permit. Fly back to home-country and spend all of that money for a background check to get a non-renewable work permit?

I've been talking to more directors in town. They literally cannot hire people because of the 5 year experience rule also.

Motive by the authorities? Inept? We know they are.

But I think they're continuing the push for have NES teachers in the public schools.

The article cites "foreign laborers" but this includes foreign teachers.

Quote:
Vietnam hub stops extending foreigners’ work permits

Wednesday, May 28, 2014

Foreign laborers in Ho Chi Minh City will have to apply for new licenses, instead of extensions, when their work permits expire, according to a recent notice issued by the city’s labor authority.

The HCMC Department of Labor, War Invalids and Social Affairs’ latest move was explained as being motivated by a dby a desire to comply with a decree issued by the government on November 1, 2013, Thoi Bao Kinh Te Saigon Online reported on Wednesday.

According to the decree, in order to apply for a work permit, foreign laborers must submit certificates of expertise, criminal records issued by their home authorities, and criminal records issued by Vietnamese agencies. The license is valid for two years.

An unnamed official at the department was quoted as saying that the new rule will cause troubles to businesses and foreign laborers in the city. Some foreigners, for instance, will have to fly back to their home countries to get their criminal records, because the existing Vietnamese laws ask the records to be issued within six months of their submitting the application. According to the newspaper, authorities in provinces around HCMC like Binh Duong and Dong Nai have kept on extending work permits for foreign laborers.


Entire: http://thanhniennews.com/society/vietnam-hub-stops-extending-foreigners-work-permits-26716.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2345
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the situation these days for entering on a tourist visa and looking for a job on the ground? Can you get a work visa in country? I have 12+ years of experience so not worried about the 5 year thing, just the situation in general.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spycatcher reincarnated



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 231

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This article was in yesterday's Saigon Times and appears to say that when a foreigner extends he doesn't have to start from scratch:

http://english.thesaigontimes.vn/34843/City-agency-misinterprets-work-permit-rule-for-expats.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2345
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the article linked above about work permit renewals. What's the current situation for initial applications? Can you come over on a tourist visa (or similar?) and job hunt and get the new employer to apply for the permit in country? And if so, what do you need to have besides the police check and notarized degree? Does the health check need to be in your home country?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skarper



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a thread still current on WP official regulations.

Health Checks must be done here.

Police check at home/from home at first. After 6 months you used to need only one from your local police office in VN - but now they seem to need one from home too which could be problematic since unless you maintain an address there you can't even apply in some countries - UK for instance.

Since so many people work on tourist visas any sinister types would just never apply for one anyway - but rules are rules and logic means little.

I have never had or applied for a WP so can't give you any concrete information. Have you seen the http://tnhvietnam.xemzi.com/? site - lots of info there too, though not just for EFL/ESL.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2345
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, appreciated. I'm finding VN visa rules as ever-changing and opaque as Chinese ones...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sigmoid



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1002

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Some recent highly amusing articles regarding the situation:

Work Permit Laws are Doing More than Just Hurting Business
http://expatmojo.com/human-casualty-short-sighted-policies/

Even Bill Gates isn’t qualified to get work permit in Vietnam: businessman
http://tuoitrenews.vn/business/20125/even-bill-gates-isnt-qualified-to-get-work-permit-in-vietnam-businessman

Businesses grumble as Vietnam's new foreign labor rules begin to bite
http://thanhniennews.com/society/businesses-grumble-as-vietnams-new-foreign-labor-rules-begin-to-bite-376.html

Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mushroom Druid



Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sigmoid wrote:
Laughing Some recent highly amusing articles regarding the situation:

Work Permit Laws are Doing More than Just Hurting Business
http://expatmojo.com/human-casualty-short-sighted-policies/

Even Bill Gates isn’t qualified to get work permit in Vietnam: businessman
http://tuoitrenews.vn/business/20125/even-bill-gates-isnt-qualified-to-get-work-permit-in-vietnam-businessman

Businesses grumble as Vietnam's new foreign labor rules begin to bite
http://thanhniennews.com/society/businesses-grumble-as-vietnams-new-foreign-labor-rules-begin-to-bite-376.html

Laughing


I read these articles also. At least they are being published in the media here in VN.

Some of the businesses that regularly do work permits have stopped doing them because the work permits have basically come to a halt.

As usual, do not try to figure out the logic or rationale behind this. There isn't any.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Vietnam All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC