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The JIS Debacle and Criminal Record Checks
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purav1da83



Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like there's been a break this week.

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news/court-rejects-sex-abuse-lawsuit-international-school/
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Listerine



Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like a positive step (in spite of a bunch of people imprisoned or dead as a result of what is seemingly horseshit) Alas it's the Indonesian legal system we're talking about, so likely a more cynical explanation. Perhaps the court's cut of the 125 mil wasn't high enough?
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Listerine wrote:
Seems like a positive step (in spite of a bunch of people imprisoned or dead as a result of what is seemingly horseshit). Alas it's the Indonesian legal system we're talking about, so likely a more cynical explanation. Perhaps the court's cut of the 125 mil wasn't high enough?


We all know that the Indonesian judiciary are one of the most corrupt institutions known to man. Nonetheless, this decision is welcome. I also note that the copycat allegations against Highscope haven't gone anywhere, so maybe sanity is starting to return.

Yet this latest case raises a lot of new questions. Eight men have been found guilty in a criminal case of sexual assault against this one child, and yet the mother doesn't win a civil case for compensation? As we all know, the burden of proof is much higher in a criminal case than a civil one.

If there isn't enough proof of abuse to satisfy a civil case, then what are these 8 men doing in jail? One person has already died in police custody and now they are telling us the claims don't even pass the sniff test in a civil case? The surviving 7 teachers and cleaners now need to be released. Otherwise, this case will continue to haunt the education sector in Indonesia.
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Listerine



Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Indon judicial system seems to either be on drugs or have caught a nasty case of rational-itis this week. They also just awarded *against* the Suharto family in a case involving money they had embezzled from the country's national scholarship fund in the 90s - requiring them to pay back something like 325 million bucks - likely Tommy's annual budget for hookers and blow. "Please pay in dollars, sirs. Country's foreign reserve bankrupt!"
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic news! The teachers have been exonerated and are going to be released. The medical records from Singapore were admitted by the High Court and they proved that the sexual assaults never even happened! As the expat community knew for over a year, these charges were a bogus scam aimed at extracting money from JIS, the best international school in Indonesia. The whole fraud has now been exposed.
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: Effects of the JIS Scandal in Perspective Reply with quote

markustm wrote:
Actually, this "crackdown" only will be temporary, until the Indonesian authorities check the validity of the visas of teachers currently working in Indonesia.

I was actually surprised that given the extent of abuse at JIS, the authorities didn't react more harshly, and like I stated before the authorities have to act in order to ensure, this sick abuse won't occur again.

This is probably a nationwide check of visas and not a witch hunt, and once new visa regulations have been implemented teaching opportunities in Indonesia, will continue.

Try and put things in perspective. Yes, it is smart for teachers to check with their schools if their visa documents are in order, and I expect
the schools are already doing this.

Obviously, this will pass, and in a few years, the expatriate teaching community will still be needed in Indonesia, and there always be language schools that hire teachers like EF, Tbi, Wall Street and others, irrespective of the current situation.

The worse thing about the JIS scandal in my opinion is the actual fact that the abuse took place.


I wonder if Markustm will now admit he was wrong about the abuse taking place? Clearly, this case has done untold damage to the reputation of Indonesia and yet Markustm chose to believe the corrupt authorities over the innocent teachers, who have now been vindicated. The abuse never took place. This whole thing was a sick fabrication.

Anyone who followed the case closely would have known that these were trumped-up charges based on fantastic evidence. One wonders why Markustm ever gave these bizarre charges any credence?
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:30 am    Post subject: Re: Effects of the JIS Scandal in Perspective Reply with quote

bradleycooper wrote:
markustm wrote:
Actually, this "crackdown" only will be temporary, until the Indonesian authorities check the validity of the visas of teachers currently working in Indonesia.

I was actually surprised that given the extent of abuse at JIS, the authorities didn't react more harshly, and like I stated before the authorities have to act in order to ensure, this sick abuse won't occur again.

This is probably a nationwide check of visas and not a witch hunt, and once new visa regulations have been implemented teaching opportunities in Indonesia, will continue.

Try and put things in perspective. Yes, it is smart for teachers to check with their schools if their visa documents are in order, and I expect
the schools are already doing this.

Obviously, this will pass, and in a few years, the expatriate teaching community will still be needed in Indonesia, and there always be language schools that hire teachers like EF, Tbi, Wall Street and others, irrespective of the current situation.

The worse thing about the JIS scandal in my opinion is the actual fact that the abuse took place.


I wonder if Markustm will now admit he was wrong about the abuse taking place? Clearly, this case has done untold damage to the reputation of Indonesia and yet Markustm chose to believe the corrupt authorities over the innocent teachers, who have now been vindicated. The abuse never took place. This whole thing was a sick fabrication.

Anyone who followed the case closely would have known that these were trumped-up charges based on fantastic evidence. One wonders why Markustm ever gave these bizarre charges any credence?


Laughing Good to see you so focused on what's really important here, Brad ...
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Effects of the JIS Scandal in Perspective Reply with quote

[quote="bradleycooper"]
markustm wrote:
Actually, this "crackdown" only will be temporary, until the Indonesian authorities check the validity of the visas of teachers currently working in Indonesia.

I was actually surprised that given the extent of abuse at JIS, the authorities didn't react more harshly, and like I stated before the authorities have to act in order to ensure, this sick abuse won't occur again.

This is probably a nationwide check of visas and not a witch hunt, and once new visa regulations have been implemented teaching opportunities in Indonesia, will continue.

Try and put things in perspective. Yes, it is smart for teachers to check with their schools if their visa documents are in order, and I expect
the schools are already doing this.

Obviously, this will pass, and in a few years, the expatriate teaching community will still be needed in Indonesia, and there always be language schools that hire teachers like EF, Tbi, Wall Street and others, irrespective of the current situation.

The worse thing about the JIS scandal in my opinion is the actual fact that the abuse took place.


Actually what I was offended by was the presumption of guilt, the casual acceptance that 'sick abuse' took place. Leaping to a presumption of guilt when the 'evidence' consisted of magic stones, hidden dungeons and hypnosis was always a long stretch. By blinding accepting the allegations at face value, the writer plays right into the 'expat as sexual predator' stereotype which fed this whole sorry fiasco. If there was strong evidence, that would have been a different matter, but there were enough people in the local press screaming that foreigners are all molesters without expats giving credence to it.

Unlike said user, I have placed regular updates about the case on this site and supported the case to free these wronged men. Many of the updates on this site from the press have been placed here by me and I have been thanked for that by several users. I rightly predicted, like many others too, that the case was a set-up and an attempt at a squeeze. That has now been widely accepted.

The real remaining injustice is the fact that 5 cleaners are still in jail. One of the cleaners earlier died in police custody. They need to be released too. The medical reports from a top hospital in Singapore stated that there was no evidence of sexual abuse involving any of the 3 alleged victims. That being the case, the cleaners need to be released too. They have already suffered torture at the hands of Indonesian police and their ordeal needs to end.
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p1randal



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Brad you just don't get it, do you? We all want you to give it a rest and quit with your crusades against people you feel have wronged you..Don't you have a job? How do you have the time to deal with this?
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disneyeric



Joined: 02 Jul 2014
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see that Brad* is any worse than "Mysterytrain". "Mysterytrain" always defends Mark... every time. And who is this Mark anyway? Why can't he defend himself? Why does "Mysterytrain" write pages and pages of angry rebuttals every time someone questions this Mark?

But I don't want to take a side in this fight either. It was very annoying of Brad to drag up that old post where Mark said the teachers had done the abuse. Yes, Mark was wrong in his views, but the post was a year old. He made an honest mistake. All I wish is that Mark, Brad, "Mysterytrain" and Princess would all stop taking sides in this stupid fight they have going on with each other. The JIS business is over now and it's time to look forward. There are many teachers who are happy in Indonesia and all this squabbling helps no one. These fights only make the whole industry look bad.
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 337

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

disneyeric wrote:
I don't see that Brad* is any worse than "Mysterytrain". "Mysterytrain" always defends Mark... every time. And who is this Mark anyway? Why can't he defend himself? Why does "Mysterytrain" write pages and pages of angry rebuttals every time someone questions this Mark?

No, no, no. I don't write "pages and pages of angry rebuttals" because of "Markustm". I don't write anything here because of "Mark", and I don't know "Mark", and I don't really care about "mark" one way or another ... I DO, however, try to give him a bit of fair play when I think he (or she, I really don't even know the poster's gender, but one might assume "he") deserves it, on some particular point or another, and on one or two occasions, I have felt so.

Quote:
All I wish is that Mark, Brad, "Mysterytrain" and Princess would all stop taking sides in this stupid fight they have going on with each other.

I am not having a fight with anyone, I am simply posting on a forum in which members express opinions and views, including opinions and views about what other members say in their posts ... sometimes I disagree or take some issue with what others say, just that, nothing more. I have addressed this matter further in the PM I just sent to you, and I quote from it here:

mysterytrain wrote:
To be honest with you, I don't feel like I'm ever particularly defending "Markustm" (and I assure you I have absolutely no idea who that person is, and certainly am sure I don't know him / her) as much as I am simply criticizing B & P for constantly digging up this dead horse between them and him ... if I have "defended" him at all, I think it is mostly for the fact that it always seems to be they, not he, who brings up the issue time after time and regenerates the feud ... he was merely commenting in the thread, and was staying pretty well on-topic.

I don't know if Markustm is a manager or recruiter for TBI, or used to be, or what, and I don't care anything about that at all one way or another. I worked as a teacher in Indonesia for the past four years, all in the same school, which was a "Nat Plus" type k-12. I've never worked for a language school chain such as EF or TBI etc, and this information is only helpful to me as far as making a quick mental note: "if I ever do consider working for such a chain, cross TBI off the list" and that's that. It doesn't need to be repeated ad nauseum just because of some apparent personal feud.



Quote:
These fights only make the whole industry look bad.

Surely you yourself can recognize this statement as hyperbole, at best.
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very interesting interview in the Jakarta Globe today with Neil and Ferdi, the wrongly accused teachers. Interesting to read about the whole nightmare from their perspective, the sheer injustice of it. I thought I would include a link for anyone who wants to hear what happened from their point of view. Of course, for the cleaners, who are still incarcerated- except for the one who was murdered- there is still yet to be justice.

http://jakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news/jg-exclusive-nightmare-begins-case-teachers-unfolded/
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Willy_In_Japan



Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly, this is not over....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/bantleman-indonesia-supreme-court-1.3463266
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The horror that is Indonesia's incredibly corrupt judicial system just won't relent. It is interesting that this has been re-opened by the Supreme Court just as the KPK (the Anti-Corruption Commision) has made revelations of massive corruption at the highest court in the land, with 'justice' for sale to the highest bidder. A truly Kafkaesque system where you can be convicted on evidence of magic stones and hidden dungeons, exonerated and then thrown back into Hell again 11 months later.

Perhaps the $125 million attempted lawsuit shakedown of the school will now commence, with massive opportunities for easy money off human suffering to be made by crooked judges. Let's just remember that the conviction was based on shonky pseudo-medical evidence that the Singapore hospitals suggested was totally bogus. The world-class Singaporean hospitals concluded there was no proof of assault.

Meanwhile 6 men and 1 woman are in custody for something they didn't do, and 1 man is in an early grave, killed during police interrogations. A true travesty of justice.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2016/02/25/supreme-court-re-sentences-jis-teachers-11-years.html
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 512
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But I thought they were aquitted and released? At which point you'd expect Bantleman to get the hell out of the country-rather than hang around for this?!!!! Sad
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