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Can you teach in Indonesia without a BA in education?
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PolishChick



Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:06 pm    Post subject: Can you teach in Indonesia without a BA in education? Reply with quote

Is it possible to teach in Indonesia without a degree in education or TEFL? I am having trouble finding any good leads if so. I have a BA in Business and a TEFL as well as TESOL certificate. I have been teaching ESL for more than 2 1/2 years and have spent 1 year teaching in Thailand. I would be so grateful for any information about opportunities in Indonesia, Malaysia or Thailand for October 2014.
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p1randal



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technically...no..However, this is Indonesia and it really will depend on the school and what they are willing to bribe immigration to get you. At my current school two of the teachers have B.A in Ed or an MA in TESOL while another has a Journalism degree and another has a degree in a Social Studies related field. Last year we had a teacher who has/had a degree in ICT.

My best advice would be just to apply to some National Plus schools around January-March and see what happens. However, like other threads have mentioned, if you are someone who doesn't like places where the rules and visa things are less than transparent then Indonesia is not the place for you haha.
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PolishChick



Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, thanks for the insight! I taught in Thailand so believe me I know all too well the run-a-round with immigration/rules.
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 130
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of Malaysia, there is a program where you are placed in local schools. It pays well and they are currently looking for people in Sabah and Sarawak. People speak well of the program though you will be in a remote community. They employ more than 100 new teachers every year.

In Jakarta it may be worth trying the Japanese and Korean schools. Because they are affiliated with embassies the local authorities leave them alone more. And pay starts st $2000 per month.
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 130
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, the degree being asked for in Indonesia is not actually a BA in Education. Most job ads ask for a Degree in English / English Linguistics / MA in TESOL.

I am sure many employers would see the value in a teacher with a Business degree, especially those offering Business English courses, but Diknas may not agree.
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EFL Educator



Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of English language schools in the Jakarta area will hire you with only a Bachelors degree + the CELTA...but the pay is nothing much to talk about.
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markustm



Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:10 pm    Post subject: Job Hunting Advice Reply with quote

I heard that Thailand is having a visa crackdown at the moment, but I am not sure how it isl affecting the ESL scene, there.

A similar change could happen in Indonesia, with visa rules for work permits tightening up this year, although often it really depends on the school, whether they can get you a KITAS.

Malaysia is a reasonable option, but bear in mind "remote" could mean you lack access to the Internet, and if its in Borneo, probably the infrastructure is limited in places. Although it does sound like an exciting project, if you like adventure, and a challenge.

I heard this is a British Council project, which could mean either they accept only British Nationals (In some countries) or have a lengthy, and regulated recruiting policy. There are also, other options in Malaysia.

I guess you are already aware of the situation in Thailand, but perhaps try emailing as many schools/organizations as possible in all three countries, and take the best offer you feel suits you.
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I heard this is a British Council project, which could mean either they accept only British Nationals (In some countries) or have a lengthy, and regulated recruiting policy. There are also, other options in Malaysia.


I believe it's run by three different entities, one of which is the BC - can't remember the names of the others, they'll be out there if people wish to find out. Also, the BC in Malaysia doesn't just recruit British teachers although, as you say, that is the case in some countries.

Incidentally, someone's just posted on the expat forum that another imminent regulation is that national plus schools will no longer be able to employ expat teachers. Whether that'll actually happen or not is another matter but these are uncertain times in Indonesia at the moment.
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EFL Educator



Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Visa crackdowns are happening everywhere in SE Asia....Indonesia will be no exception as is a member of ASEAN....unfortunately EFL teachers are not exempted from this happening..native English speakers will be targeted soon.. Shocked
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EFL Educator wrote:
Visa crackdowns are happening everywhere in SE Asia....Indonesia will be no exception as is a member of ASEAN....unfortunately EFL teachers are not exempted from this happening..native English speakers will be targeted soon.. Shocked


Indeed they are. I can't speak for anywhere else but the problem in Indonesia is that due to corruption and cronyism - as well as a blatant lack of transparency and a dearth of accountability - there isn't a level playing field. Meeting this week's set of regulations doesn't mean you'll get a work visa while not meeting them means you might. It's impossible for anyone to know where they stand or where they might be standing in the coming months and years. The joys of working in a developing country!
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EFL Educator wrote:
Visa crackdowns are happening everywhere in SE Asia....Indonesia will be no exception as is a member of ASEAN....unfortunately EFL teachers are not exempted from this happening..native English speakers will be targeted soon.. Shocked


If people are really interested in this issue, and the deep roots of these "crackdowns", they need to look into the ASEAN Common Market, which is apparently coming into being in 2015. While delays and sloppy implementation are to be expected (this is South-East Asia we are talking about), some kind of common ASEAN economic community is in on the horizon. The ramifications of this are potentially huge.

To give one example, The Philippines has a population of 100 million and their labor pool are known to be hard-working. The middle English usually speaks English quite well. They are also a very low-income country. I have seen jobs for English teachers in The Philippines would promise a wage of 100-120 pesos an hour: that's just a couple of dollars.

Clearly, the notion of a wave of Filipino teachers coming into Indonesia and Thailand is a possibility. They may speak English better and be willing to work for lower wages than most local teachers. The notion of large amounts of ASEAN workers coming into Indonesia is already making law-makers nervous in Indonesia. Some local governments are already trying to set quotas and so on to limit the influx. Anxiety about the ASEAN common market and what it means is certainly one of the reasons both Thailand and Indonesia are getting really antsy about expats of late. They are afraid of a deluge of foreign workers.

It is now quite common to see job ads for Thai schools which say Native Speakers 30,000 baht and Filipinos 15,000-20,000 baht. I have heard of staffrooms at both langauge schools and "international" schools in South-East Asia where there is resentment by some expats that many of their colleagues have been removed and replaced by Filipinos. Personally, I think that this is globalization and we had better get used to it, but there are going to be a lot of ruffled feathers before it all plays out.

There are numerous articles about it. You can read a decent overview here.

http://www.thaivisa-news.com/asean-economic-community-2015-challenge-how-ready-are-you/
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tudor wrote:
Quote:
I heard this is a British Council project, which could mean either they accept only British Nationals (In some countries) or have a lengthy, and regulated recruiting policy. There are also, other options in Malaysia.


I believe it's run by three different entities, one of which is the BC - can't remember the names of the others, they'll be out there if people wish to find out. Also, the BC in Malaysia doesn't just recruit British teachers although, as you say, that is the case in some countries.

Incidentally, someone's just posted on the expat forum that another imminent regulation is that national plus schools will no longer be able to employ expat teachers. Whether that'll actually happen or not is another matter but these are uncertain times in Indonesia at the moment.


In terms of Malaysia, they are now employing a couple of hundred teachers a year both in Pahang, Terengannu and Sabah and Sarawak (Malaysian Borneo). I've heard conflicting reports. Some people loved living in a small village and found it a good chance to save. Others disliked the isolation. The conversation is best pursued in the Malaysian room, but seeing how the OP specifically mentioned Malaysia, it seemed worth raising. Here is a link to a recent dave's thread about the program.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=105057
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Shroob



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1318

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bradleycooper wrote:
EFL Educator wrote:
Visa crackdowns are happening everywhere in SE Asia....Indonesia will be no exception as is a member of ASEAN....unfortunately EFL teachers are not exempted from this happening..native English speakers will be targeted soon.. Shocked


If people are really interested in this issue, and the deep roots of these "crackdowns", they need to look into the ASEAN Common Market, which is apparently coming into being in 2015. While delays and sloppy implementation are to be expected (this is South-East Asia we are talking about), some kind of common ASEAN economic community is in on the horizon. The ramifications of this are potentially huge.

To give one example, The Philippines has a population of 100 million and their labor pool are known to be hard-working. The middle English usually speaks English quite well. They are also a very low-income country. I have seen jobs for English teachers in The Philippines would promise a wage of 100-120 pesos an hour: that's just a couple of dollars.

Clearly, the notion of a wave of Filipino teachers coming into Indonesia and Thailand is a possibility. They may speak English better and be willing to work for lower wages than most local teachers. The notion of large amounts of ASEAN workers coming into Indonesia is already making law-makers nervous in Indonesia. Some local governments are already trying to set quotas and so on to limit the influx. Anxiety about the ASEAN common market and what it means is certainly one of the reasons both Thailand and Indonesia are getting really antsy about expats of late. They are afraid of a deluge of foreign workers.

It is now quite common to see job ads for Thai schools which say Native Speakers 30,000 baht and Filipinos 15,000-20,000 baht. I have heard of staffrooms at both langauge schools and "international" schools in South-East Asia where there is resentment by some expats that many of their colleagues have been removed and replaced by Filipinos. Personally, I think that this is globalization and we had better get used to it, but there are going to be a lot of ruffled feathers before it all plays out.

There are numerous articles about it. You can read a decent overview here.

http://www.thaivisa-news.com/asean-economic-community-2015-challenge-how-ready-are-you/


I haven't heard about this before, but it's quite a daunting prospect. As you say, Filpinos generally speak English to a high level, and if the AEC is like the EEC/EU, then free movement of peoples may be included.
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likwid_777



Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 227
Location: NA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, as far as teaching overseas as a Westerner goes, better get in quick. Your average Filipino who is competent with English will work for less, and feed his/her whole family with the money. We Westerners will barely be able to afford our decadence, and whine about the salary. Endangered species indeed...
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shroob wrote:
I haven't heard about this before, but it's quite a daunting prospect. As you say, Filpinos generally speak English to a high level, and if the AEC is like the EEC/EU, then free movement of peoples may be included.


In terms of this point, free movement of ASEAN nationals is envisioned as part of it. Here is one passage I found related to the plan:

ASEAN nations (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) pilot a free regional labor market for skilled workers and professionals which will be starting on 2015. It means that there will be a free movement of labor and workers among member countries of which the following countries are included: Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia, Singapore, Laos, Philippines, Brunei, and Vietnam.

Of course, there will have to be some limits. Tiny Singapore is hardly going to be able to accommodate an influx of millions of impoverished Myanmarese or Indonesians. But the outline of the policy is pretty clear. I note at this stage that there is already free movement in terms of ASEAN citizens for tourism. An Indonesian can already turn up in Thailand, Cambodia or Vietnam and get 30 days visa-free as a tourist.
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