Job Discussion Forums

[ghost]

When offered a contract (or more as the case may be) is it ok for the potential future employee (teacher) to ask the recruiter or Chinese university (or school) for the emails and phone numbers of teachers who are currently employed in the universities or schools, where a contract was offered?

Signing a contract to work in a completely new setting, in unknown territory is something very important, and I find it astonishing that some recruiters just want you to sign right away.....after they have offered you a contract. This is after they have checked us out, with references and possible phone calls to employers. It should work both ways!

I have landed up in too many jobs in the past (Turkey/Taiwan/Korea) that were simply not the right fit, and the problems might not have occurred had I been in touch with teachers at my future employment locations.

Just as employers check us out - it should go the other way too. Signing contracts remotely can be a gamble, and more so when you are essentially signing your life away for a period of a year or more.

Any input on this important question, gratefully appreciated.

Ghost in Saudi

[Shroob]

[3701 W.119th]

It's standard practice, and as Shroob pointed out, if they are in anyway reluctant at all I would run a mile. Huge red flag.

However... I'm not entirely sure these 'testimonials' should be given the weight they often are (coming from current employees, at least). They'll likely range from 'yes men' FTs at one end, down to tolerable teachers (from management's point of view), who will see no discernible benefit at all in rocking the boat. Why would you?

If my boss in the UK tapped me on the shoulder and told me a potential employee was going to contact me in the next few days, to ask some questions about the role, would I be entirely frank? Can't say that I would. I would be 'diplomatic' at best. Like having a 6th-former in to shadow me for a morning, I'd be going through the motions.

This is just my opinion.

[vikeologist]

Sure, but the things that the teachers tell you will still be important. I go out of my way to point out to teachers all the bad things about my Uni, along with the good.

It's not simply about whether a school is good or bad. it's also whether the teacher will be happy. Do they want to be developed or left alone? which is more important to them; the students to be motivated or good at English?

If a teacher says that everything at their school is perfect, I'd reckon they're lying, but if they're happy there, their reasons will be very illuminating.

I agree with Shroob. It would be an absolute red flag.

[thechangling]

It's a must to get feedback from current teachers and/or past teachers about conditions at a prospective school/uni. If the school are unbecoming about giving you contacts to do this, as the others have said, it's a huge red flag.
Also, beware the shill teacher too, but you won't know who that is till you get there!

[Bud Powell]

After nine tears teaching primarily in public universities, I've found that it is uncommon for a school to volunteer phone numbers and email addresses of faculty and administration. One may ask, but one may not necessarily receive. If the FAO (or the FAO English speaking puppet) speaks English, one may get an email, and you'll receive answers to one or two questions. That is, after all, the FAO's job.

Getting beyond the FAO is another situation. One may ask for the Dean's phone number, but in all likelihood, you won't get it. You may get an email address, and one's answers will go ignored. This practice may continue for the entirety of your employment at the school.

I do remember one dean who actually called me from abroad and engaged me in a very lively and enjoyable conversation. I appreciated it, and had it not been for the school's inability to nail down exactly where I would live in relation to the school, I might have taken the job based upon the friendly phone call. That experience was unique.

I wouldn't say that sharing information before OR after signing a contract is SOP. At least, it has not been standard procedure at most of the universities at which I taught. One must cultivate relationships before anyone opens up about anything at any school.

I hope that everyone else's experiences differ from mine. Most of my employers have been closed-mouthed about procedural changes and schedules. Often, I don't learn of activities or procedural changes until after they occur.

If TESOL and other MA's will help FTs get ahead, I'm all for it. I have grave reservations about the direct usefulness of a degree in linguistics in a university that has a successful foreign languages major unless he can get permission to teach the subject. While i have a background in linguistics, I have not found much of it of direct advantage in the class room. The research I've read sheds light on some of the situations I've encountered, and I've been able to impart applicable knowledge of linguistics in the class room, but for the most part, it goes over their heads. However, whatever knowledge a teacher brings to the class room is an advantage.

More importantly, the ability to design interesting and memorable curriculum is equally important. Creativity, enthusiasm, and knowledge of the subject matter is important. All the degrees in the world cannot compensate for the inability to create and effective present a well-designed curriculum.

[SledgeCleaver]

I don't have huge experience with college applications, but I asked and received email addresses from teachers from two different unis, and both of them were happy to answer my questions. One of them in fact didn't recommend the uni too much, in any case was very honest about pros and cons, so it wasn't a setup, at all. I talked to him on Skype, etc. I can tell you it was a huge weight off my shoulders to feel like I could trust one of the teachers, and the teacher saying the school was okay, provided you could put up with one or two things. I would not feel comfortable going to any place until a current or former employee had told me it was an okay place; maybe I'm just paranoid and maybe some people are more adventurous/foolhardy than I am.

Definitely ask for 1-2 emails, and shoot a short note. At a minimum, ask that basic conditions are okay (contract honored, apartment acceptable, no excessive harassment from staff about x or y, no visa problems). I think most teachers will answer at least with a short note.

[Timer]

I had one prospective teacher email me when I was working in a kindergarten, but nothing else since then (it was a number of years ago now). At first I thought it was the school trying to set me up, and even when I was sure it wasn't it was still hard to be brutally honest. Now I've been here longer I feel I could be as honest as I need to be without as much fear, but in the beginning I just wasn't sure how things would go.

As for asking teachers myself, I can only really remember doing it once and all I got was a vague reply and then other emails ignored. I don't bother anymore as it's hard enough to get clear information from the school that by the end of it I have no energy left to push for teacher emails.

Despite all this, I think it's something that should be done. If a school refuses it then I'd be very suspicious.