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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 13257
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:05 am    Post subject: NO Reply with quote

Greece voted 61-39 to reject European conditions for extending the loans.
Is that the end of Greece as a location for EFLing ?
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 10258
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greece hasn't been a location for EFLing for years, thanks to its awful economy Confused
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 13257
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The death-knell ?
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 10258
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, possibly. For a while.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 10958
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it the end of Greece???
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1223

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. If the ECB et al don't step in to help, someone else will... I'd say it's very much in Western Europe's interests to come up with something more sensible than austerity punishment. If they don't, a further consequence could be the gradual domino collapse of the other weaker states, Italy included.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 10958
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damned if they do, damned if they don't...

Compromises with the Greeks will trigger demands for the same treatment from the other weaker member states, surely?
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1223

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure they will, but does any European government want to sit back and watch an entire nation slide into financial / social chaos, only to be helped back on its feet by Russia / China? I think that a deal will be done - esp now that the Greeks seem to have agreed almost a unity government.
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Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 852
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prime Minister Tsipras has called Europe's bluff in decisively winning his referendum, forcing and quite possibly splitting the EU into deciding if it will go the extra mile for Greece with better terms than were on offer days ago.

The crisis will only be mastered when there is debt relief in return for genuine structural reforms in Greece. Specifically that means labour market reform, a radical streamlining of both the size and efficiency of the public administration and a massive and successful anti-corruption campaign.

However, here we see no evidence whatsoever that Syriza is prepared to do much of anything meaningful, yet alone radical. The austerity debate has always been a red herring, distracting attention from the real problem - the woeful lack of structural reform.

And what have we learned these past momentous days - after electing the snake oil salesmen Tsipras and Varoufakis in January, on the false premise that Greece could stay in the euro and not have to endure any more austerity let alone embrace true structural reform, the Greek people - pushed to the wall by gormless EU bureaucrats who really ought to know better - have voted to live in a fantasy world where they are not bound by conditions, yet want to take other countries' money.

Well, I also want to live in a world without consequences, but of course, sadly we don't. As the great Janis Joplin put it ' Freedom's just a word for nothing left to lose'. Greece shows zero signs of a willingness to reform.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 10958
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How have they called anybody's bluff, though? It is a phrase that crops up regularly in reportage. But really, what do people think is going to happen next? The people have voted that they don't like austerity measures or terms of credit? Fair enough, but no more credit then. There is no bluff.

There might be blackmail, though. The Greek government knows that it can threaten to pull out of the Euro, and possibly upset the whole Eurozone as a result. This is about the only action they could take. And from what I can see from my German friends, they are quite happy to face up to that eventuality rather than throw good money after bad...

All just seeds for the coming Communist take-over, of course....
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Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 852
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greece's creditors, the ECB, the IMF and the EC have already provided more than 200 billion Euros in 2 bailouts since a rescue plan began 5 years ago. Yet Tsipras criticized these bailouts for turning Greece into an 'austerity laboratory', and is requesting a fresh 3 year loan in exchange for reforms.

Tsipras has promised his government will submit credible reform proposals to its creditors today, Thursday, of whom the UK domestic banks are one to the tune of 10.8 billion Euros....Germany is owed 68.3 billion Euros.

Friends and family in Greece report that Greek banks are preparing to appropriate 30 per cent of deposits of 8,000 Euros or more. Any help provided by the European authorities and the IMF to keep the banks open and the basic functions of society operating will be humanitarian.
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