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Academy of New York Warsaw
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="dynow"]neutral ground? don't like drinking? now I'm really starting to think you're a recovering. Scottish and all. quote]

Nah, I like the pub, I just don't like drinking these days Very Happy I've gone completely off drinking ever since a disgusting hangover that lasted 3 days a few months ago. A great night, but a painful next day...

Quote:
so you'd want to meet dragonpiwo, face to face.....where, at the ice cream shop just before it closes for the night? maybe you two can go for a long moonlit stroll in the park. man law?


Hey, there are plenty of nice places to chill in Poznan. Smile

Quote:
i've yet to meet a pole, or an expat in poland for that matter, that didn't drink at least during social occasions.


I know quite a few Poles that don't drink at all, and some foreigners too. It's not that weird, except teetotal Poles don't tend to draw attention to themselves.

Quote:
when i think about a few select members of this forum meeting up for drinks in Poland, i can't help but wonder if it would be guys sitting around in awkward silence being afraid to stir the pot too much, or.....if we'd all hit it off immediately and have a grand ole' time. i can see it now....dragonpiwo telling jokes using all that silly british terminology americans never use, delph discussing some new random polish tax code he read about the night before, Scottie1113 reminiscing about the old days on the west coast when he had more money and more hair....


Damn right, I once spent an hour in the pub debating the legality of various actions during the dissolution of Yugoslavia Wink To be fair, one of my friends is a lawyer, another friend is an acknowledged specialist in international affairs and a third has been involved in some intelligence-related activities. In other words, exactly the kind of geeks that would enjoy such an argument Wink

(later, we went on to arguing about whether or not rugby players were tougher than American Football players...)
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scottie1113



Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 351
Location: Gdansk

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scottie1113 reminiscing about the old days on the west coast when he had more money and more hair....[/quote]

I still have my hair but not as much money. Nonetheless, I'm doing just fine now, thank you.
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scottie1113



Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 351
Location: Gdansk

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scottie1113 reminiscing about the old days on the west coast when he had more money and more hair....[/quote]

I still have my hair but not as much money. Nevertheless, I'm doing just fine now, thank you.
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MannaFromKevin



Joined: 27 Feb 2012
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having interviewed with ANY earlier this week via Skype, I thought I'd share the experience. This was an initial interview to "learn about my personality" and the next step would be arranging for a demo lesson at a later time.

The person I met with asked me three questions:

1) List 6 adjectives to describe myself
2) "What would someone say about you who doesn't like you?" (I thought this was an odd way of phrasing this type of question.)
3) How do I motivate my students?

After those three questions, she said that was all the questions she had for me and asked if I had any for her. I was certainly expecting her to ask me more questions than that. If that was her evaluation of my personality, it was certainly a somewhat superficial evaluation.

So I then went into my list of questions that I've been asking every school I've been interviewing with. Questions such as "Are teachers paid a set salary or per hour/class?" and "What other activities beyond teaching are teachers expected to take part in?" Basic questions to sort of vet the school and make sure there aren't any surprises.

Well, I got about three questions in, and while I was mid-sentence with my fourth question she cut me off and basically said, "I appreciate the chance to talk with you. We have another staff member who is a native of Warsaw who can answer more detailed questions and give you information about what it's like to live in Poland." (I hadn't asked any questions about living in Poland/Warsaw.) "Thank you for your time, goodbye." Click.

And that was it. I'm not sure the entire interview lasted more than 10 minutes. I thought it was a bit rude to cut me off and refuse to answer any more of my questions. I'm a new teacher so maybe this is fairly common, but the other two schools I interviewed with last week (schools not in Poland) were extremely patient and happy to respond to all of my questions with detailed answers. I came away feeling well-informed about those schools. Not the case with ANY. How am I supposed to know if *I* even want to continue pursuing a position with their school? In my opinion, interviews are two-way streets.

Anyway... considering the other opportunities which are available to me, my interview experience with ANY, and what I've learned while researching ANY, I decided to notify them that I'm not interested in continuing as a candidate for a teaching position.

But like always, YMMV. For all I know they might be a wonderful school. I wasn't really given the chance to find out.
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Moonshadow_51



Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject: NY Academy Reply with quote

Perhaps they didn't sense a good fit. This isn't a personal slur, but a thought that if things weren't going well, there wouldn't be a reason to continue.

I like this organization; it has been transparent and professional with me in all respects. I sense it is a very good fit.
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 958
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting your experience, Kevin. This will be helpful for people considering working for ANY.

It's definitely not a positive sign when a school won't give you a chance to ask questions, but maybe your interviewer was pressed for time.

I would have at least waited to see what ANY offered before saying I wasn't interested. You can never have too many offers. Wink

MannaFromKevin wrote:

1) List 6 adjectives to describe myself not willing to play this game
2) "What would someone say about you who doesn't like you?" Screw that guy!
3) How do I motivate my students? OK, so this is a relevant, sensible question to ask.

I remember answering inane BS-generating questions like this at my interview with ANY a few years back. My favorite was 'Who are your heroes?'

What 26 year old guy has 'heroes'? Should I say Batman? Cristiano Ronaldo? Raymond Murphy for creating a damn-fine grammar book?

Perhaps they're just trying to see if you have some personality and charisma, but I found their questions really lame and unprofessional.
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Moonshadow_51



Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:41 am    Post subject: NY Academy Reply with quote

Let's not hastily come to conclusions about this Academy. The questions they ask probe personality types, and when I interviewed with the HR people, I found them amenable to answering my questions.

As a general rule, it is considered rude to inquire about salary during an initial screening interview. Sure, you want to know, but money isn't discussed until mutual interest is established.

After the screening interview, a timed task is due within 48 hours. I can imagine that this task would seem daunting to some. Once (typo edited) the second task is complete, a third round is scheduled. I like the respectful way applicants are treated. The interviewer offered full disclosure on all company matters.

Longevity is the Litmus test as far as I am concerned. The good news about NYA is that teachers remain with them for more than a few years.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: NY Academy Reply with quote

Moonshadow_51 wrote:
Let's not hastily come to conclusions about this Academy. The questions they ask probe personality types, and when I interviewed with the HR people, I found them amenable to answering my questions.


With all due respect, it sounds like you've just landed a job with them but you have no experience of them/Poland.

Quote:
As a general rule, it is considered rude to inquire about salary during an initial screening interview. Sure, you want to know, but money isn't discussed until mutual interest is established.


In Poland, it's absolutely normal to discuss this at the first interview. For anyone well qualified and experienced, it's important to know that the employer isn't wasting your time. When I was working freelance, I wanted to know the answers to three things - when, where and how much. Failure to provide straight answers was grounds to say "thank you, but no thank you" and I could get on with my day.

What the OP did was absolutely right - if they were unwilling to talk, then they were wasting his time.

Quote:
After the screening interview, a timed task is due within 48 hours. I can imagine that this task would seem daunting to some. Once (typo edited) the second task is complete, a third round is scheduled. I like the respectful way applicants are treated. The interviewer offered full disclosure on all company matters.


There is absolutely no need for three rounds of interviews in any context. Any vaguely competent hiring manager would know this - why waste the applicant's time?

Quote:
Longevity is the Litmus test as far as I am concerned. The good news about NYA is that teachers remain with them for more than a few years.


How strange, given that they've only been in business since 2009.

Anyway, you'll soon learn about Poland. But here's a hint - don't be too overconfident about an employer when you have no experience of Poland and the way Poles do business.

Does your contact state a fixed number of hours, or has it merely been promised? I suspect the latter.
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MannaFromKevin



Joined: 27 Feb 2012
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: NY Academy Reply with quote

Moonshadow_51 wrote:
As a general rule, it is considered rude to inquire about salary during an initial screening interview. Sure, you want to know, but money isn't discussed until mutual interest is established.

I'm not so sure about this. Either way, I think you've got it twisted. I didn't ask how much they'd pay me. I asked if they paid a set salary or by the class/hour. I think it's a reasonable question.

Moonshadow_51 wrote:
After the screening interview, a timed task is due within 48 hours. I can imagine that this task would seem daunting to some. Once (typo edited) the second task is complete, a third round is scheduled. I like the respectful way applicants are treated. The interviewer offered full disclosure on all company matters.

I was told up front that they would later like to see a demo lesson, but that's all. No mention of a timed task due in 48 hours. But hey, I guess it's possible they just thought I was an a******. Smile I think I'm a nice guy, but ya can't please everyone I suppose.

Like I said before, YMMV. I can only speak to my own actual experience. I appreciate that you've also shared yours, and I'm sure others would as well. Not every experience will be like mine and it's important to have that understanding.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not so sure about this. Either way, I think you've got it twisted. I didn't ask how much they'd pay me. I asked if they paid a set salary or by the class/hour. I think it's a reasonable question.


A very reasonable question, and worth knowing the answer to before you waste your time. It would certainly be my first question these days - theres no point talking to me if there isn't a monthly salary on offer
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 886
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finding out how they pay is very different than discussing salary numbers as a full-time employee. It is perfectly normal to discuss schedule requirements, travel time, expenses and payroll periods as part of an interview.

If it is contract work being discussed then determining the rate is very much a topic in the first interview session.

When it comes to professional positions where only ranges have been discussed or no salary was stated, the general thought is that it is better to wait until the position is offered by the employer. It is generally agreed that the first one to mention an actual amount has given up an advantage akin to the first move in chess.
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Moonshadow_51



Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 143
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:46 am    Post subject: ANY Reply with quote

I disagree with the view that it is okay to discuss money at the first interview. It is really best to wait:
http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml

At this Academy, after the first interview, someone will contact you to let you know whether you "passed" the first stage, and are invited to the second stage. Just sharing the experience with you.

We can disagree on points, but I've worked in more than 10 countries in over 20 years, have taught, directed schools and university programs and filled HR positions, and know my way around the globe.

Yes, Delphiane, some have remained the full five years.

The initial interview is never about discussing money; it is always about sharing backgrounds and feeling out whether there is a reason to go beyond the first screening. The first interview is all about establishing rapport. Try it sometime, and you may receive more lucrative offers.
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 958
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Are we talking recruiting English teachers or CEOs? Reply with quote

I agree with ecocks. And since most tefl work in Poland (and especially Warsaw) is contract or hourly based, finding out about the salary in the first interview is normal. I worked in Warsaw for almost 5 years so I have some experience with this.

Refusing to answer basic questions about conditions of employment in a first interview is slightly rude of an employer, IMHO. It definitely cost 'the Academy' a potential teacher in this case, anyway.

Even at the British Council, which is one of the better paying language schools in Warsaw (better paying than the Academy), there is only one interview + (in some cases) a demo lesson.

We're talking recruiting English teachers here, not CEOs.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: ANY Reply with quote

Moonshadow_51 wrote:
I disagree with the view that it is okay to discuss money at the first interview. It is really best to wait:
http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml


Not in Poland in the specific context of TEFL (or other foreign languages) work. Waiting is pointless. Someone who knows ANY and knows Poland will not be interested in details about "motivated students" and so on (because we know it's all lies) - but they will want to know exactly what's on offer.

At the first interview, I would expect to find out whether or not a guaranteed contract (with umowa o prace bez terminowo) is on offer (if not, bye bye) and a range for the salary. If I don't get a positive answer on both counts, then I'm simply not interested. I imagine Shake had exactly the same attitude - why would someone with his experience and qualifications waste his time with multiple rounds of interviews?

Quote:
At this Academy, after the first interview, someone will contact you to let you know whether you "passed" the first stage, and are invited to the second stage. Just sharing the experience with you.


What a waste of time. If an employer wanted to play such games, then I'd expect to be compensated for my time.

Quote:
We can disagree on points, but I've worked in more than 10 countries in over 20 years, have taught, directed schools and university programs and filled HR positions, and know my way around the globe.


And yet you appear to be rather clueless when it comes to Polish employers. As Shake says, they have a reputation for cutting hours from teachers that they don't like. That suggests that they pay hourly, and also suggests that the teacher is at the mercy of the school. Combine that with their rudeness to the poster above, and you soon see why those of us in Poland are cynical about the place.

Quote:
The initial interview is never about discussing money; it is always about sharing backgrounds and feeling out whether there is a reason to go beyond the first screening. The first interview is all about establishing rapport. Try it sometime, and you may receive more lucrative offers


Again, you're displaying ignorance of Polish culture. Schools are (generally) not interested in "rapport" or anything other than money. In fact, if they're pretending to be all friendly and nice, something is usually wrong.

Like others are saying, we don't appreciate our time being wasted. If a guaranteed (permanent) contract isn't on offer, I'm not going to waste my time. I was approached by a school a few months ago, and my very first question was "are you offering a permanent contract with guaranteed monthly earnings?"...they said "no" - so I terminated the interview. I'm not going to waste my time working for worse conditions than I currently have - and anyone that knows Poland knows that such a contract is worth quite a lot.

In your case, why would I waste my time going through several interview rounds? I'd regard it as an insult and a waste of my time. The BC (who are very much someone that people want to work for) only require a single interview and a demo lesson - so why would anyone else need more?
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add :

Most of us will already know how to figure out an acceptable hourly rate by looking at the income from the classes. For instance - if I know that they have groups of 8-10 and they earn 15zl an hour from each client, then I know that they earn 120zl-150zl an hour from each class. A baseline then is to ask for half of that - so 60zl-75zl an hour. So - there's no point mucking us around - we already know what's likely to be on offer, so discussing money and conditions at the first interview absolutely makes sense.

moonshadow_51 wrote:
Yes, Delphiane, some have remained the full five years.


Welcome to Poland, where telling lies about how long people have worked there is a national sport. It's a standard lie in Polish language school Smile
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