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a KITAS question
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memae



Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:13 am    Post subject: a KITAS question Reply with quote

I started out in Indonesia at a language school that would start us off on sosbud visas for a few months before finally getting a kitas, and if anyone quit before them there was always a bit of commotion (or at least heavy hinting) that the KITAS had already been paid for and would need to be paid back despite never being collected.

Now i'm working a different job, who told me to pick up what i assumed was my work visa before coming in. To my dismay (at the time) it was actually a sosbud. But, turns out I don't like my job. They are processing a KITAS for me, but it's coming up to summer and I'm leaving the country and they say I can pick it up on the way back. I am looking for another job. I haven't signed my contract. I'm curious about the deal with KITAS processing. Does it actually get paid for before collection? I've been poking around and I've seen some information saying yes, and other information saying it doesn't get paid for until after you report to immigration after arriving.

I don't want to just bail on my job and not return. I would like to let them know first. But I'm concerned that if it's all paid for there's going to be some pressure on me to pay back the fees

And, if there is a KITAS waiting for me for one employer and I never collect it, will there be any hassles getting another one later for a different job?
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked two people who manage schools in Indonesia and they both said it is paid in advance. Even if it is in the earliest stages of the process you are likely to cost them around 5 million rupiah in lost agent fees. This is why some schools persist with teachers who are clearly very weak. It is expensive to let people go and start again. Also working on s Sosbud visa is prohibited but I guess you have decided to take your chances with that. Really though, your school could make it uncomfortable but they can't force you to stay.
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memae



Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, thanks for the info. I do know better than to work on a sosbud. I wasn't smiling when I realised they were starting me on a sosbud (sponsored by their own yayasan that does little more than fund their scholarship students) after leading me to believe it would be a KITAS. I should have been smarter about it. It just made for an uncomfortable situation and I took my chances. If I tell them beforehand, I guess they'll probably keep my last two weeks pay, because the term ends mid-month. Whatever. Classes are done, we're just supervising exams and plugging numbers into spreadsheets.

Also, at my previous job, after I got my KITAS we had a pre-warned pre-Lebaran visit from Immigration so our boss just swapped anyone without a KITAS with teachers from his other school for the day, but I had to go too because even though I had my KITAS it hadn't been fully paid for or something like that yet. Seems like maybe there's different information around the place because it just happens differently.

I'm mostly concerned about not picking up this KITAS causing any drama later if I try to get a new one for a new employer. Is it going to matter at all? I love Indonesia, and I want to stay, but not at my current job.
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you say is interesting in terms of a recent post by Jaybets. He knew an immigration agent in Singapore and she said that very few KITASes are currently being issued compared to years past. These are the times. The reason this board is quieter these days is because DIKNAS has slashed the rate of visa issuance.

Jaybets also revealed that the majority of teachers working in Indonesia were now doing so on sosbuds. The sosbud visa is for social or cultural purposes and it prohibits paid employment. Therefore the whole industry is standing on legally shaky ground.

You could use this to your favour, however. If your school gets difficult just remind them that they broke the law by employing you on a sosbud, so they are not exactly lawful themselves. They can't employ teachers on social visas and then get sniffy about proper conduct and legalities.
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 141
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading about the OP's dilemma related to the current situation regarding the kitas makes me so glad that I finally got out of Indo 8 months ago after almost nine years. The whole process of gaining a kitas was always a complex and lengthy one during the time I was there-the whole Indonesian 'tradition' of backhanders and payments to agents, staff at embassies etc became very tiresome and frustrating after a while. No idea how long the OP has been working on the Social visitor's visa, and I've no idea if this entirely related to their situation-but I can categorically say that now, at this moment in time, NO WORKING VISA'S-KITAS are being issued-following the recent revelations about JIS the whole process of granting/issuing working visa'a is being overhauled....
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p1randal



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tazz, just out of curiosity, how can you possibly know that? That KITAS's are not being issued?
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jef dam



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever about no new KITAS' being issued (that remains to be seen), I can say with absolute certainty that are no problems regarding the renewal of existing KITAS'.
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 141
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Family member employed by the ministry of manpower + couple of DOS friends at language schools-'new' issuance of kitas is 'on hold' as it were.....renewals-these are being granted.
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Tudor



Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 251

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tazz wrote:
Family member employed by the ministry of manpower + couple of DOS friends at language schools-'new' issuance of kitas is 'on hold' as it were.....renewals-these are being granted.


I wonder if this applies across the board or if it's just the usual suspects (e.g. Wall Street, TBI etc) who have to play by the rules (like the supposed requirement for an English degree) while it's business as usual for everyone else. The irony being in the case of the former that they don't even teach kids...
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't seem like the regulations should be hard to draft. A standard police clearance letter from your home country. If this keeps even a few sex offenders out of Indonesia then it is something positive. I doubt it will make things much harder for schools as you'd hope only a small number of teachers have serious crimes to their names.

I don't think that the fact there are no children at Wall Street should make them exempt from these regulations. A sex offender might hunt victims outside of school as well as in the workplace. Indonesia would be wise to not issue work visas to people with serious criminal activity in their past. I once worked with a guy who we later learned had served time for armed robbery and kidnapping. Clearly he didn't belong anywhere near a school even if he wasn't a sex offender.
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memae



Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll be 4 months by the time i'm out. 60 days plus 2 extensions.

Work has just started hammering me for documents to send off to get my KITAS processed, but if they're really not processing maybe work is just bluffing. i'm not in JKT either, but way out in the sticks. Might make it a bit different? My school is licensed too, and I think they've recently found that heaps of schools aren't licensed so that might be what's causing a lot of the visa hold ups (maybe?).
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

memae wrote:
It'll be 4 months by the time i'm out. 60 days plus 2 extensions.

Work has just started hammering me for documents to send off to get my KITAS processed, but if they're really not processing maybe work is just bluffing. i'm not in JKT either, but way out in the sticks. Might make it a bit different? My school is licensed too, and I think they've recently found that heaps of schools aren't licensed so that might be what's causing a lot of the visa hold ups (maybe?).


DIKNAS published a list of 2500 individual language schools that were teaching English a few years ago. This was around 2011 when the English degree requirement started to be enforced. Most of these had Indonesian names and many drew a complete blank. Mr Star language school anyone? Banana English? If these schools aren't properly licensed then Diknas should blame itself. They have had them on their register for years. But they are in a position of power and they dictate how you do business. They have no real expertise in TEFL but it would be a mistake to presume they really care about education standards. In the government system they run there is a farcical 99 percent pass rate. They have a nationalist agenda to reduce the number of teachers. They are the boss here and there is little point arguing.
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 141
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this a 'school'-international/ nat + or a language course establishment? You say it is licensed.....by whom, and to do what? I believe that under current regulations-if it is a 'school' it must have international accreditation in order to hire foreign teachers.....I'd be very concerned that only NOW after your Sosbud visa has run it's course, are they asking for documents to 'begin' the Kitas application process...... this can take months-assuming that they are even processing them now. Whole business of this employer providing you with a valid kitas sounds like total BS to me!
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memae



Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The preschool section has an international license, which I didn't realise until we were all told to remind concerned parents of it following what happened at JIS. i was surprised to find that out. The rest of the school isn't internationally licensed yet, but the director was away not long ago to get that happening.

I'm not sure what's going on with that KITAS. They've got all the documents they need except my contract, basically.

Anyway, I read through the employee handbook, closely, and found a little teensy section with about 3 sentences that basically says the first 3 months are probation and I can terminate my employment without having to pay damages.

I know at my last job in Jakarta they'd always make a big fuss about people quitting early and paying back all the KITAS fees even though they were still on sosbuds. Luckily for all of them, the lady who dealt with all the visas and accounting was an absolute gem and would always step in and say they hadn't paid for them yet. But the DOS was always making big threats about $2000 consequences.
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 136
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you are saying Memae is exactly the problem with far too many schools in Indonesia. They say all good relationships are based on trust. However, in so many schools in Indonesia trust simply doesn't exist between teachers and management due to hidden clauses, broken promises and dodgy visas. Too often schools think that blustering and intimidation can make everything okay. It is a dysfunctional environment in so many ways but the ones most to blame for the problems are outraged at the suggestion anything is wrong. Vested interests have got it all tied up.
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