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Anti- teach in Indonesia Propaganda
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markustm



Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:42 am    Post subject: Anti- teach in Indonesia Propaganda Reply with quote

When you are looking for a teaching job, we all acknowledge that forums can be helpful in whether you apply for a job in the country, and how to apply for a job.

I just feel that if someone interested in working in Indonesia, waded through through some of the comments on this forum, their is definitely an air of negativity against this decision, and some of the schools.

Indonesia has tightened up its regulations for hiring new teachers, but lets put this in perspective, What other South -East Asian countries, haven;t done the same, through the years?

Another side is that sometimes people like to vent their anger at the fact they had to leave Indonesia, or dislike living here, this is when the negativity starts to take over a forum, with serial comments about "how terrible and unsafe working in Indonesia is.

My argument is that if Indonesia is so terrible, then Why are they many teachers here, who re-new their contracts, and have built a great career in Indonesia, and are encouraged to take CELTA, DELTA courses by their schools? Why do many teachers return and work in Indonesia?

Many of these schools are the ones that take the brunt of this negativity by the regular anti- teach in Indonesia Propaganda posters, often spreading malicious one sided rumors, and innuendo.

There are plenty of teachers at EF, Tbi, Wallstreet, and countless other schools that did not fully believe the anti- teach in Indonesia propaganda of some of the so called "experts" who dominate this forum, and have the right papers, considering all work visas were checked by the authorities after the fallout of the JIS scandal emerged, and there are no reports of teachers from these schools being sent out of Indonesia.

My advice to you is read the negative anti- teach in Indonesia postings, but put them in perspective. Why are the people who post many of these comments, are now not in Indonesia? What are the real motive behind the "warnings" they post?

The best and only way to determine if you would like to live and work in Indonesia, is watch you tube videos of the places you like to work, visit travelers websites, as Indonesia offers a wide range of travel opportunities during the holidays you get here.

Visit the school websites, and if you want to apply for a job, ask what documents you need. Contact people who actually live and work in the school, rather than take the advice of unknown posters, claiming they are "experts" without any back-up information to confirm this.

I agree the ESL and teaching industry has changed in Indonesia, but it still means you have a good chance of legally working, and living here, if you try, and in all probability won't experience the so-called "problems, the anti- teach in Indonesia posters focus on, who in some cases stopped being part of the teaching community in Indonesia, after they left the country years ago.
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Anti- teach in Indonesia Propaganda Reply with quote

First, no other country in Asia has a "must have a degree in English" requirement. As far as I know, a BA in any subject will do in most schools in the rest of SEAsia (often in conjunction with a TESOL certificate).

Second, I hope that people work safely in Indonesia. People being employed at Rumah Bahasa on tourist visas are playing a game of roulette obviously. Rather than slinging mud like the word "propaganda" at people who have informed others of the dangers, let's note that some people have been deported as a fact, not a rumour.

I also hope that the original poster will agree that the only way to work safely in Indonesia is to get a KITAS. As a matter of fact, sosbuds, missionary visas and business consultant visas are illegal to work on.

Do you deny this assessment of the law, OP?
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markustm



Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:43 pm    Post subject: Legal Work Permits - Perspectives Reply with quote

[quote="bradleycooper"]
markustm wrote:
I also hope that the original poster will agree that the only way to work safely in Indonesia is to get a KITAS. As a matter of fact, sosbuds, missionary visas and business consultant visas are illegal to work on.

Do you deny this assessment of the law, OP?


The majority of schools do hire teachers on work permits, so I really don't understand your pre-occupation with spreading fear that they somehow don't.

Like I stated before, let any visitors to this forum contact the schools themselves and actual members of the teaching community in Indonesia, and find out.

Considering in another post on this forum, you freely admit you left Indonesia a number of years ago, meaning that you can never meet a teacher in a school face to face, or walk into an Indonesian language school, and be in any meeting with the teachers. and or managers of a school. How can you even claim you know whats going on in Indonesia, right now?

I would suggest you come to Indonesia, meet teachers, visit a language school and talk to members of the immigration department, and perhaps you may get a clearer, up-to date picture of the Indonesian teaching scene today.




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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Legal Work Permits - Perspectives Reply with quote

bradleycooper wrote:
markustm wrote:
I also hope that the original poster will agree that the only way to work safely in Indonesia is to get a KITAS. As a matter of fact, sosbuds, missionary visas and business consultant visas are illegal to work on.

Do you deny this assessment of the law, OP?


Considering in another post on this forum, you freely admit you left Indonesia a number of years ago, meaning that you can never meet a teacher in a school face to face, or walk into an Indonesian language school, and be in any meeting with the teachers. and or managers of a school. How can you even claim you know whats going on in Indonesia, right now?


Equally, considering that you said in a recent thread that you have just finished working as a teacher at TBI after 4 years, that means you are not a manager, right?

Can you please explain to me how a teacher from TBI would be able to comment, for example, on how legal the visa permit situation at Rumah Bahasa is?

How can you make blithe assurances about what managers and Immigration agents are doing at schools you never worked at? I think we can take for granted that rival companies aren't letting you walk inot the office and see their paper work!

There were 26 teachers deported from Indonesia on Monday. There are umpteen different people on here who have confirmed they were put on the wrong visa. Eg. "Tazz" was put on a missionary visa. "Memae" was complaining his school had him on a Sosbud. The principal of National Plus school has gone on public record saying that 7 teachers were recently caught at a National Plus school in Bogor on VKU visas.

Are you calling all these people liars? How on earth can you claim to have clairvoyant knowledge of what "most" schools in Indonesia are doing with their visa agents?

The fact is that Indonesia's education sector is scandal and abuse prone. Just look at today's copy of the Jakarta post and you will find the "most commented story of the day" is teachers complaining about unfair treatment from Indonesian authorities.

Then there is this from the Sydney Morning Herald, Australia's leading newspaper, this morning:

The thoroughly corrupt Religious Affairs Ministry, of all bodies, conducted a raid. The pre-school was shut down because it did not have the correct licence from the Education Department. What was not clear at the time was that the correct licence had been functionally impossible to get because of inertia within the Education Department.
Then the head of the department in charge of early childhood and non-formal education, Lydia Freyani Hawadi, made some wild accusations against the school’s headmaster, and began insisting on new bureaucratic meddling that would have virtually put the school out of operation. She was sacked shortly afterwards.
And now the Immigration Department is deporting teachers.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/teacher-deportations-yet-another-overreaction-by-indonesian-authorities-20140605-zrz7h.html#ixzz33sGHD4CY


Last edited by bradleycooper on Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:44 pm; edited 4 times in total
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 131
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP gives the game away by using loaded language like "anti-Indonesian". He is obviously biased. He then acts like the self appointed rep of the whole industry listing names of schools where he never worked. Obvious what this frustrated recruiter is up to. My sincere advice if he wants to recruit more teachers is to raise salaries at his school. It would work wonders. Or even better address the serious complaints at the school he works for. This whole thread is little more than sour grapes that no one with the right degree wants to work at Markustm's "former" employer. But who would choose them over their better-funded and more professional competitors?

Last edited by princesss on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:27 am    Post subject: Re: Anti- teach in Indonesia Propaganda Reply with quote

markustm wrote:
There are plenty of teachers at EF, Tbi, Wallstreet, and countless other schools that did not fully believe the anti- teach in Indonesia propaganda of some of the so called "experts" who dominate this forum.


Nice try lumping those 3 schools together! One of them has 800 schools in 55 countries, one has 400 schools in 28 countries and one of them has a dozen schools in Java. The last one is, to paraphrase an old joke, "world-famous in Bandung and Bogor".

There is not 1 thread on this whole forum which criticizes Wall Street. It simply doesn't exist. Former teachers speak highly of them. I would highly recommend working for this company. When I worked in Indonesia I interviewed several teachers who had worked there and they always said how professional they were. How on Earth is suggesting that people work for Wall Street Indonesia "anti-teach-in Indonesia propaganda"?

Another point I would like to make is about intellectual property. EF has developed its own course books for every level. It also has its own animation and audio visual materials. They have invested millions in developing course books. Wall Street has its own intellectual property too- its own "online learning software" for every level.Both these schools are developing their own IP, which is great. In contrast, the local school which the OP lumps in with these multinationals has been in business 30 years and has never published a word. Not a single book. They just order British textbooks from a catalog.

Marksutm is comparing apples and oranges here. The complaints I have made are about his employer, not Indonesia generally. I recommend working for a school which can get you a KITAS (number one) but also one which cares enough about education to develop its own materials. By all means come and work in Indonesia. But do your homework first.


Last edited by bradleycooper on Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 131
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the OP doesn't consider is the sharp fall in the rupiah. The first thing newbies do is convert the salary into their own currency. That number is now a full third lower than a couple of years ago. Maybe that's a way bigger factor in why it's hard to recruit than some negative reviews on a single website.

In a way it's unfair to Indonesian schools because costs in Indonesia haven't risen by a third but that's the way things are. Really TEFL is a teacher's market as there are so many options. If recruitment is tough then it might be time to increase pay or improve conditions. Make the package more attractive.
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memae



Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: Legal Work Permits - Perspectives Reply with quote

bradleycooper wrote:

"Memae" was complaining his school had him on a Sosbud.


Her, thanks Wink


Look, i love Indonesia and i love teaching here. My students have always been incredible (there were a few spoiled Pondok Indah children that might be the exceptions, but even they weren't horrible).

For all the drama i've had getting pushed around by my job and the last minute specific details of my visa (because why would anyone assume they wouldn't be getting a kitas? my mistake!), i still want to work in Indonesia, and i'd recommend it to anyone i think could handle it.

Indonesia isn't for everyone, but i think if the pay was more lucrative for foreign teachers (especially considering the rupiah as of late) it would be worth trying it out. i'm from Australia, so i didn't have far to go to see if i liked it here enough that working one month here to earn what is a week's wage in Australia was worth it. i don't really compare my salary here to home, because i live here and i want to stay so it doesn't matter for now. But anyone coming here for the first time, especially from further afield, has a lot more at stake than i do/did (and i was already sure i'd love it here).

What happened with my visa is sketch, but the worst part about it is that when i was told the visa was a sosbud and not a KITAS, i just kind of shrugged it off because that seemed pretty normal to me. It just seems like the usual routine - start on a sosbud while the KITAS gets processed. It happened to me before, i know teachers (and know of teachers) at other schools (national plus, international, Wall Street, TBI, EF, all of them) who did a month on a sosbud or business visa (VKU?) before getting their KITAS. Employers don't want to pay for the KITAS of someone who gets here, hates it, and leaves. Employees don't want to be working illegally, and that might end up being the straw breaking the camel's back when they might have stayed if they weren't put in the uncomfortable position of working without a KITAS.

i only know of one school that for sure doesn't do anything shady with visas and that's Sekolah Pelita Harapan. And maybe they do and i haven't heard about it, but they seem like a super legit school to me. Sure, lots of schools probably try to keep on top of it all but if someone leaves or gets pregnant and they're stuck needing an immediate replacement, they might end up putting someone on illegally just because the time it takes to process a KITAS is too long.


i don't want foreigners coming to Indonesia and hating it. i love it, and i want others to love Indonesia too. i think anyone coming here (or thinking about it) needs to be aware of the games that get played and the things that are frustrating so they know what they could get themselves into and how they can deal with it and get on with enjoying Indonesia.
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markustm



Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Rupiah Devaluation and Salaries Reply with quote

I expect the usual negativity and anti teach in Indonesia contributors to reply, after all they have dominated this forum with their "anti teach in Indonesia" campaign, and always need to justify their negativity, despite what I stated in the original posting.

"Princess" mentioned the fall in the rupiah rate, the fact "Schools are finding it hard to recruit teachers."

If "princess" looks at many other countries around the World, (he or she) would notice that most currencies in the BRIC countries, and throughout South East Asia have dropped in value. Its a recurring problem, in countries except Singapore, and Australia, which have some of the highest day-to day living costs in this region.

On salaries, throughout the last five years in the USA, Britain, Europe and many Asian countries, they have either dropped or remained stagnant since 2008, in some cases in Japan, South Korea, Cambodia, and Thailand,, which are teacher hubs they haven't really changed for years.

Try and put things in perspective, because your comments suggest that salaries in Indonesia are deterring teachers from applying for work here.

This is misleading, and if some visitors to tis forum took your "advice" and moved else where, chances are they would discover its a similar scenario in many countries, around the World.
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markustm



Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Mis-conceptions from Afar Reply with quote

bradleycooper wrote:
markustm wrote:
.


There is not 1 thread on this whole forum which criticizes Wall Street. It simply doesn't exist. Former teachers speak highly of them. I would highly recommend working for this company. When I worked in Indonesia I interviewed several teachers who had worked there and they always said how professional they were. How on Earth is suggesting that people work for Wall Street Indonesia "anti-teach-in Indonesia propaganda"?


Most of the threads on this forum are actually written by you or your sidekick "Princess," so it doesn't surprise me that nothing has been written about Wall Street, aside from your own promotion of the school.

Agency Networks and Recruitors

Schools sometimes do have agency networks and recruiters outside Indonesia, and negative publicity of certain schools, whilst recommending others may suggest a targeted info commercial.

Can the readers on this forum have your word, that you are not receiving, any payment or favors from Wall Street for recommending them on this forum.

"When I worked in Indonesia,"

Speaks volumes, because if you are who you claim to be, then you will have no first hand, on the ground knowledge of whats going on inside the schools today in Indonesia.

I think the readers on this forum prefer expert advice from teachers, and expatriates who are in Indonesia, thats why I recommend contacting the schools directly through their websites or job postings, and having direct contact with someone who works as a teacher in Indonesia.

How can anyone on this forum believe that you were a former School manager who recruited teachers, when you refuse to tell people, What school you managed, and When?


On Copyright and School Materials

I really don't understand your issue with this, because whatever country you teach in, this is a common trait in the teaching business.

I agree some schools spend money on their own materials, like EF, but most teachers who work in the ESL industry throughout Asia, and much of the World, know that most schools simply order books from publishers like Cambridge.

This is common in the UK, and Australia too, and one reason some schools prefer this is that the structure of these books, also relate to the international examinations organizations like Cambridge offer.

Another reason is, some of these schools are not international brands like EF, so they cannot afford to develop books themselves.

Come over and Visit/work in Indonesia

Again, May I suggest you visit Indonesia, or work here again (If you ever did), and then you can really "help" teachers on tis forum with up-to date advice.

I am sure if you are such an expert, you claim to be on this forum, any school like EF, Wall Street, or TBi would gladly hire you.[/b]
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 131
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was hoping that Memae's honest and accurate assessment of the industry- that there is a whole lot of misuse of social and business visas- might have been brought some more honesty to the debate. After all it completely contradicts the OP's ridiculous assertion that the whole Tefl industry is clean and the Immigration raids prove it. But, hey, it doesn't back up Mark, so let's just ignore it.

If i understand Mark's position we used to be issuing anti Teach in Indonesia propaganda (as recently as yesterday) but when Bradley points out he actually recommended Penabur and Wall Street, that strangely doesn't count. No admission that the anti teach in Indonesia claim was wrong; he now makes the claim Bradley is actually a covert recruiter in the pay of Wall Street! Nice conspiracy theory!

But do I need to spell out that the new "Wall Street Indonesia recruiter" claim completely contradicts the whole premise of this thread. Yesterday Bradley was trying to stop people from working in Indonesia and now he is trying to get them to work at Wall Street indonesia.

Is the OP sure he isn't throwing mud and hoping some of it will stick?

And yes, Memae's info also completely contradicts your clains that all is legal.
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memae



Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:13 am    Post subject: Re: Rupiah Devaluation and Salaries Reply with quote

markustm wrote:


If "princess" looks at many other countries around the World, (he or she) would notice that most currencies in the BRIC countries, and throughout South East Asia have dropped in value. Its a recurring problem, in countries except Singapore, and Australia, which have some of the highest day-to day living costs in this region.

On salaries, throughout the last five years in the USA, Britain, Europe and many Asian countries, they have either dropped or remained stagnant since 2008, in some cases in Japan, South Korea, Cambodia, and Thailand,, which are teacher hubs they haven't really changed for years.

Try and put things in perspective, because your comments suggest that salaries in Indonesia are deterring teachers from applying for work here.



Sure, it's happening everywhere except Japan, South Korea, and Thailand, and that's exactly where everyone is going. Even i looked at teaching there, and i only did my CELTA as a means of getting into Indonesia. i've been fascinated by Indonesia since i was 6 years old and they taught us that naik naik ke puncak gunung nursery rhyme at school. But all the hassle of visas and the fact that i'm earning half/ two thirds of what i could in Japan or Korea does lead me to look at working there instead. i'm already in Asia and i don't really have much to lose besides a few rupiah that i could make up pretty quickly once i start working elsewhere.

But why would anyone quit working at any other job in Australia or the USA or England where they can work for 1-2 weeks and earn what'll take a month here? They must really want to come here for other reasons - and there are lots of them. Indonesia is a wonderful place. But sometimes the situation isn't so great - you get an absolute bully of a boss, or there's sneaky little things here and there on the contract (point of hire singapore instead of Sydney for the return flights, 24/7 availability, whatever) and then they start you on the wrong visa and keep saying Immigration is still processing your KITAS (for 4 months while they see if you're going to stay or not) and it all kind of builds up and then maybe it's not worth it. i don't mind all the nonsense so much, except when it comes to things like bosses telling employees on the verge of quitting that they'll need to pay $2000 for the KITAS that they never even had. Sure, the same things happen elsewhere - there's always horror stories from S Korea and Japan, but at least you get paid a stack more, and that might make putting up with it all worth it. Or, you know, just stay at home and work at Kmart and hate it but put away 2-3 times as much money a month and come here on holiday for three months if all you wanted was to experience Indonesia. One of my friends from home does that. Works in Australia for 6 months at a job she hates, comes and stays with her Balinese family until her money runs out (usually about 6 months) and goes back home and works, and returns again and again. She could teach, but why would she? i feel like there's a lot of people (especially Australians) who would rather do that than work here, and for people from further away, South Korea and Japan just seem... better. There might be all the same shady stuff, but at least the pay is better, public transport is better, infrastructure is better, sleeping in without being woken by a mosque is better, food is better (i disagree, but i know lots of people will come to Indonesia and eat sushi), hospitals are better, fashion is better, and there's snow, and it's closer to home.

Money is usually that final thing that makes the decision. If wages here were the same as Japan, there'd be more people. Still not as many as Korea and Japan, because those places seem friendlier to westerners (and i mean in terms of creature comforts being available), but more. If the pay is the same and you don't mind showering with a bucket of cold water and a pail, why not come to Indonesia?

i think princess was right about the rupiah and people turning away from Indonesia and looking for work elsewhere. It's not just because of the money, but it's because the money isn't worth the risk of not liking it here. People will go to Saudi for $4000 a month and hate it, but they'll stick it out for a year. No one's doing that for $1500 (especially when you're paying accommodation too) (or less, for anyone at EF and the like) unless they really want to be here.
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bradleycooper



Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: Rupiah Devaluation and Salaries Reply with quote

memae wrote:


Money is usually that final thing that makes the decision. If wages here were the same as Japan, there'd be more people. Still not as many as Korea and Japan, because those places seem friendlier to westerners (and i mean in terms of creature comforts being available), but more. If the pay is the same and you don't mind showering with a bucket of cold water and a pail, why not come to Indonesia?

i think princess was right about the rupiah and people turning away from Indonesia and looking for work elsewhere. It's not just because of the money, but it's because the money isn't worth the risk of not liking it here. People will go to Saudi for $4000 a month and hate it, but they'll stick it out for a year. No one's doing that for $1500 (especially when you're paying accommodation too) (or less, for anyone at EF and the like) unless they really want to be here.


Wise words! Recruitment for Indonesian schools is a nightmare now, which explains the saturation marketing from some chains. It is a constant headache. Schools wouldn't spend all the money on online advertsing if the candidates they needed were just strolling through the door. That's just business.

There are 3 headwinds facing the industry at present. One is DIKNAS which is only approving people with English degrees or Masters in TESOL. You can get jobs in Korea, Japan, China or Thailand etc. with a BA. The indonesian requirement is a very high bar, as few people have "English" degrees. I was last recruiting in Indonesia 2 years ago. That DIKNAS requirement disqualifies 95% of applicants who send in CVs. Not even Education degrees will be accepted in some cases! No serious comment-poster would deny this has made things tough.

Another factor , as Memae and Princess mention, the rupiah has fallen to almost 12000 rp against the dollar. It used to be around 9000 rp. I don't even understand markustm's comment that "it has happened everywhere since 2008". The rupiah has fallen against the dollar. Not the other way around. The Thai baht is still at around 30 baht to the dollar, right where it has been for many years. The fall of the rupiah has only happened in Indoensia self-evidently, and it has made wages less competitive. I suspect Markustm is confusing exchange rates with wages, which are entirely different things. Indonesian TEFL has had both stagnant wages and a weaker currency, which has underminded competitiveness.

Also there is the issue of the "rise of the National Plus". Look on here and many, many posters have started saying, "Go for National Plus jobs". "Get in at private schools", and so on. I saw this one coming a few years ago. If you have a specialized degree, why bother with the language schools at all? You might as well go for bigger money at private schools. In the ol' days, the language schools used a lot of TESOL teachers with TESOL certificates but not degrees. Those teachers are now ruled out by DIKNAS, making recruitment much harder for language schools. Some recruiters are losing their cool.

Of course the weak rupiah and much tighter DIKNAS regulations are major factors, but it's easier to blame scapegoats on online forums. Yet, inform yourself of the facts, and the Indonesian government is openly admitting it wants to drive expats out. Here, for instance, is this piece from the Jakarta Post in late 2013:

There is a disturbing message behind our front page headline on Monday that read, “RI cuts back on expat workers”. It wrongly implies that this is good news for Indonesia and that this is a reflection of the country’s success in phasing out foreign workers and giving more job opportunities to Indonesian nationals.

The senior manpower ministry official quoted in the news story suggested that the downward trend would continue next year and that the government was preparing more regulations to limit expatriate employment ahead of the opening up of the Indonesian labor market under the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC) beginning at the end of 2015.

Indonesia’s attitude toward the hiring of foreign labor follows the protectionist and xenophobic tendency that now prevails in the economic policies of the government. But labor is not like the automotive industry, where there may be some justifications, if only temporary, for protectionism.


http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/09/18/editorial-bring-em-expats.html

This one even has graphs demonstrating the deliberate reduction in expat workers:

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/09/16/ri-cuts-back-expat-workers.html
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jef dam



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RE: Salary -

Yes the rupiah is weak at the moment, however, that doesn't really impact your purchasing power within Indonesia. If you're sending money abroad, yes, it does diminish your spending power, but when you live in a country more often than not you'll be spending your money there.

Also comparing salaries in Japan, S. Korea, and to a lesser extent Thailand, to the money on offer in Indonesia is pointless unless you're looking at it through the lens of cost of living, which is significantly lower in Indonesia compared to the other countries mentioned. In real terms it works out more or less the same, in most cases.

I've not lived in any of Japan, S. Korea, or Thailand so if someone who has lived in any of those countries as well as Indonesia would like to chime in on the cost of living there it would be helpful.

RE: Ex Pat Employees -

According to the articles and graphs posted the cull is happening mostly in areas of technical jobs and middle management . I'd imagine that ESL teachers would fall into the category of professionals, along with jobs in the areas of law, finance, insurance etc. As per the graph professional jobs have seen the lowest decline since 2009, so taking into account the broad range of jobs the word professional encompasses it'd be fair to say that the decline in availability of ESL jobs for native speakers is negligible.

Again, if someone can throw up stats for jobs in the ESL industry this would be very helpful.

RE: Visas -

There is a go-slow on new visas at the moment, partly due to the JIS case, and partly due, IMO, to the upcoming election. Certain government departments are using the JIS case as an opportunity to flex their muscles in order to score some points with the incoming administration, and to make up for their own past short-comings, IMO. It will blow over, as it always does, and things will return to normal, hopefully sooner rather than later. Naive on my part? Possibly, but in my time here I've not seen anything to make me think that this won't play out exactly the same way as previous visa scares have.
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princesss



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 131
Location: japan/indo/aust

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jef dam wrote:
RE: Salary -

Yes the rupiah is weak at the moment, however, that doesn't really impact your purchasing power within Indonesia.


It has been weak for over a year. I think you are right it doesn't immediately impact on purchasing power but it does hit imported goods within a few months.

The main point was about recruitment though. In my opinion people convert into their own currency when they see a salary. A lower figure in US dollars or pound will turn some people off. This would be way more important than some visa scam warnings imho.
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