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International Houses in Poland
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
When I worked for the IH Koszalin group they stipulated no private work in the contract and paid you through a UK front called Glenrex to avoid Polish tax, which they stated they paid.


Which was over 15 years ago and really has no relevance to today's IH in Poland. Yet again, you're basing your experiences on woefully outdated information.

Quote:
500 Euro a month in Europe is astonishingly awful. Free flat? enjoy the block on the edge of town a mere 25Zl home in a taxi, which is a large chunk of the 80 or so Zl you'll earn a day.


The thing is that you have absolutely no idea what IH offer these days. I know what one of their franchises offer in Poland, and they have city centre accommodation as standard, close to the school.

Anyway, 500 Euro a month in Europe plus accommodation isn't a bad start in Poland. Bearing in mind that they in general are known to recruit absolutely fresh teachers from the CELTA so they can train them properly, it seems fair for the first year.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 723
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject: harrumph Reply with quote

OK let's hear it from the horse's mouth. What did they offer you in the way of MONEY?

Teaching development/workshops won't pay the electric.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 723
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Here you go Reply with quote

This is marginally more miserly than the current Bell offers. And eat your words Delph as it's for next year! Don't let facts stand in your way.

http://ihworld.com/jobs/detail/ih_katowiceenglish_teacher1

So for the 2014/15 academic year they are going to pay you 2,500-3,500 Zl plus a 220 Zl/month UKNI payment. However, you find your own accommodation. In Poznan, the 1 bedroom flat I rented was about 2,000 a month. A shitpit will set you back about 1,000 plus bills. Love the 200Zl flight allowance and the U.S. contract.

It's a pittance. A horrific offer like Bell's.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Here you go Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
This is marginally more miserly than the current Bell offers. And eat your words Delph as it's for next year! Don't let facts stand in your way.

http://ihworld.com/jobs/detail/ih_katowiceenglish_teacher1

So for the 2014/15 academic year they are going to pay you 2,500-3,500 Zl plus a 220 Zl/month UKNI payment. However, you find your own accommodation. In Poznan, the 1 bedroom flat I rented was about 2,000 a month. A shitpit will set you back about 1,000 plus bills. Love the 200Zl flight allowance and the U.S. contract.

It's a pittance. A horrific offer like Bell's.


And if you bother to read the page properly, you can see that they only want you from 3:30 to 8:30 every day, that you have only have to work 21 hours a week and so on. Anyone with half a brain can fill that morning up easily in Katowice, meaning another 2000zl a month. That means nearly 5000zl a month for a newbie with no experience - not bad at all.

You also seem to deliberately ignore that it's an entry level job. It might be a pittance to you, but then again, people applying there won't have wasted most of their life in a sandpit.

They're also looking after healthcare costs and even paying 50% of prescription costs. Not a bad offer at all for someone fresh out of their CELTA from IH Wroclaw or the BC in Krakow.

Looking at it further, you could easily fill the morning from 7-10 up with classes paying 1zl a minute in a company, so that's 180zl extra a day, or in a typical month, something around 3500zl. Then you could fill that Saturday morning elsewhere too and get another 150zl for the trouble - so we're up to 4100zl on top of the 2700zl minimum. Our potential teacher has then 6800zl a month to play with - minus 2000zl for a nice flat, and he's still sitting on 4800zl a month, or 1200 Euro.

And our guy doesn't have to rot in a sandpit far away from family.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 723
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:46 pm    Post subject: haaa! Reply with quote

There you go about sandpits again. The red herring tactic is getting old. It's there plain and simple, a dreadful offer, which is up-to-date.

What a totally miserable existence! Teach till 8.30pm, sort you stuff out, maybe eat something, more often than not go for a coffee or beer with the other teachers. Hope you don't get roped into one of IH's conversation clubs or Saturday morning kids' clubs. Get up at 5.30am in the winter, drudge to Air Products or some other miserable firm in the snow well before daylight, that's if IH stipulate you can do 'privates' and basically work yourself into the floor for what is still a pittance.

Your maths re the 1Zl/minute is also wrong as it doesn't take into account breaks between 7 and 10. You've also quoted a gross figure. Then there's the small issue of someone arriving in town and competing with all the established freelancers/schools for these company hours.

Then there's the small question of effective teaching but don't let that get in the way. 21 hours is fine but 40-50 certainly isn't and I know because I've done it. I've also worked for IH in Poland, so know how it goes re the eating late and socializing. Most of these teachers will be new or newish and won't handle such a schedule. They certainly won't have time to do IH's free DELTA offered in return for a 3 year sentence in the IH gulag.

They'll already be out of pocket for the flat finding fee and set up fees associated with the move like winter jackets and a decent pair of boots etc, not to mention the excess over what IH pay as a travel allowance.

The Achilles heel to your suggestion is called reality. More likely you'll have about 60 Zl a day after you've paid your rent and bills, which is exactly 1 cinema ticket, 1 pack of smokes a large tortilla kebab, a tram ticket and 1 beer or to make it quicker 1 steak and chips on the rynek. Dream on kid. You sound very inexperienced, a modern day Candide. 'In the best of all possible worlds' and all that.

Reader be warned. Bell have a similar cruddy offer, Berlitz is even worse and god forbid you become a TEFL chimp at Callon.


Last edited by dragonpiwo on Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NilSatis82



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Here you go Reply with quote

delphian-domine wrote:
dragonpiwo wrote:
This is marginally more miserly than the current Bell offers. And eat your words Delph as it's for next year! Don't let facts stand in your way.

http://ihworld.com/jobs/detail/ih_katowiceenglish_teacher1

So for the 2014/15 academic year they are going to pay you 2,500-3,500 Zl plus a 220 Zl/month UKNI payment. However, you find your own accommodation. In Poznan, the 1 bedroom flat I rented was about 2,000 a month. A shitpit will set you back about 1,000 plus bills. Love the 200Zl flight allowance and the U.S. contract.

It's a pittance. A horrific offer like Bell's.


And if you bother to read the page properly, you can see that they only want you from 3:30 to 8:30 every day, that you have only have to work 21 hours a week and so on. Anyone with half a brain can fill that morning up easily in Katowice, meaning another 2000zl a month. That means nearly 5000zl a month for a newbie with no experience - not bad at all.

You also seem to deliberately ignore that it's an entry level job. It might be a pittance to you, but then again, people applying there won't have wasted most of their life in a sandpit.

They're also looking after healthcare costs and even paying 50% of prescription costs. Not a bad offer at all for someone fresh out of their CELTA from IH Wroclaw or the BC in Krakow.

Looking at it further, you could easily fill the morning from 7-10 up with classes paying 1zl a minute in a company, so that's 180zl extra a day, or in a typical month, something around 3500zl. Then you could fill that Saturday morning elsewhere too and get another 150zl for the trouble - so we're up to 4100zl on top of the 2700zl minimum. Our potential teacher has then 6800zl a month to play with - minus 2000zl for a nice flat, and he's still sitting on 4800zl a month, or 1200 Euro.

And our guy doesn't have to rot in a sandpit far away from family.


Sorry, but anyone who knows anything about Poland, and indeed teaching, knows that this is pure fantasy for a newbie teacher.

Don't let your judgement be clouded by your desire to try and prove dragonpiwo wrong all the time.
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dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1030

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delph wrote:

Quote:
Looking at it further, you could easily fill the morning from 7-10 up with classes paying 1zl a minute in a company, so that's 180zl extra a day, or in a typical month, something around 3500zl. Then you could fill that Saturday morning elsewhere too and get another 150zl for the trouble - so we're up to 4100zl on top of the 2700zl minimum. Our potential teacher has then 6800zl a month to play with - minus 2000zl for a nice flat, and he's still sitting on 4800zl a month, or 1200 Euro.


you and everyone else on here knows those income numbers are unrealistic.

that number is reached if and only if there isn't a single holiday in there, a single sick day, a single vaction day, a single cancellation from your students, that it's NOT in the summer at all....not to mention, that you manage to put together and maintain a consistent 3 hour work schedule every single morning, M-F (contracts DO eventually end). your scenario never ever happens, so why even mention it?

also, who wants to get up at 06:00, work 7-10, then trudge back home, have something to eat, grade papers, catch a nap and then head back out to be at work at 15:30 and work till 20:30, back home 21:00'ish? and then go straight back to bed to be ready for your 7:00 lesson the next day, and do that 5 days a week...and then you suggest packing your saturday mornings as well? sounds like a dream come true. try giving that same advice to the guy with a kid or two. I'm sure his wife would be over the moon with your suggestions.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There you go about sandpits again. The red herring tactic is getting old. It's there plain and simple, a dreadful offer, which is up-to-date.


The sandpits are also there as plain as day. While our IH teacher has the freedom to do things, your existence is entirely dependent upon some random Libyan tribe. I know who has the better deal.

Quote:
What a totally miserable existence. Teach till 8.30pm, sort you stuff out, maybe eat something, more often than not go for a coffee or beer with the other teachers. Hope you don't get roped into one of IH's conversation clubs or Saturday morning kids' clubs. Get up at 5.30am in the winter, drudge to Air Products or some other miserable firm in the snow well before daylight, that's if IH stipulate you can do 'privates' and basically work yourself into the floor for what is still a pittance.


Seems like a pretty normal existence for young graduates in Europe. For someone without experience, it'll do them the world of good. And they won't have to live in a sandpit and rely on random tribesmen for their safety.

Quote:
Then there's the small question of effective teaching. 21 hours is fine but 40-50 certainly isn't and I know because I've done it. I've also worked for IH in Poland, so know how it goes re the eating late and socializing. Most of these teachers will be new or newish and won't handle such a schedule.


You did it 15 years ago, so it's hardly relevant. A young graduate should have the sense to get their main meal in about 2:30, and they should also have the sense to focus on their career while they've got the energy.

Quote:

The Achilles heel to your suggestion is called reality. Dream on kid. You sound very inexperienced, a modern day Candide.


Bitter to the end about the fact that you have no hope of ever being able to stay in Poland with your family, eh?
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 723
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:10 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

You've dodged every comment. Same old sandpit red herring. No-one agrees with you. And tell just how teaching 40-50 hours a week in 98 isn't relevant to the same work load in 2014 with regard to effective teaching, newbie teachers and a horrible crack of dawn to midnight existence. Total load of bull.

What freedom do you have teaching that schedule? The freedom to sleep and not much at that. What I have done since leaving Poland as a teacher has nothing to do with this discussion. My present gig suits me and the missus fine and it's really none of your business as to what works for us. You just want to contradict everything I say. I've been in Poznan/Poland since you were at school, so I know what a crock of BS you speak.

The facts are all there on the links I've posted. It must gripe that people are actually agreeing with me. You are simply absurd along with the piffle you talk.

Wait for it lads he'll have another go about my wedding or honeymoon, even the missus and my career! I don't know this guy. However, it's clear that he doesn't like reality, facts, links and other people's opinions if they aren't his too. It's also cleat he'll be frantically googling hotels and places I've been to try and diss me. Maybe he needs a break. Clearly some OCD going on there.
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dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1030

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delph wrote:

Quote:
You've dodged every comment.


well, that's not entirely true. he did suggest as a solution to working every waking moment that one should make sure they eat their main meal at 2:30. problem solved. now you can go ahead and work a 45 lesson/week schedule and feel just fine Shocked

again, no secret as to why lindenia.net crashed and burned. you dabbled in real estate too? i could hear the conversation now:

ExpatX: Can I afford this apartment on a TEFL salary?

Delph: Oh, absolutely. You earn 3,000/month now but just think, you could easily make another 2,500/month by doubling your current work load and do Saturday mornings as well. You'll be good to go. Oh, and never EVER drink.

Very Happy
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
You've dodged every comment. Same old sandpit red herring. No-one agrees with you. And tell just how teaching 40-50 hours a week in 98 isn't relevant to the same work load in 2014 with regard to effective teaching, newbie teachers and a horrible crack of dawn to midnight existence. Total load of bull.


I'm not sure why you seem to think that a 40 hour week is somehow unmanageable. I have friends working in corporate jobs who put in 60+ hours routinely without complaint, or friends working in medicine and law where 60-70 hour weeks are absolutely normal.

Then again, it explains why you're a teacher still doing basic exam prep courses at your age. Work ethic is everything, and not developing an alcohol problem is also everything.

Quote:
What freedom do you have teaching that schedule? The freedom to sleep and not much at that.


Quite normal for many people, and not really a big deal. The whole point is to maximise one's earnings and experience when you've got the energy and health to do it, so that when you're 40something, you don't have to live in a guarded sandpit in a rubbish dangerous country. Perhaps if you'd spent more time working and less time drinking yourself into oblivion, you wouldn't be in Libya today.

Quote:
What I have done since leaving Poland as a teacher has nothing to do with this discussion. My present gig suits me and the missus fine and it's really none of your business as to what works for us.


So you keep telling us. But whereas our IH guy gets to spend every night in his own bed, perhaps with a ladyfriend, you have to spend most of your life well away from your family. I know what works for normal people, and that isn't it.

Quote:
The facts are all there on the links I've posted. It must gripe that people are actually agreeing with me. You are simply absurd along with the piffle you talk.


They aren't facts at all, because you're ignoring reality. The average wage in Poland would be around 25% higher if it wasn't for the vast black market here.

Quote:
Wait for it lads he'll have another go about my wedding or honeymoon, even the missus and my career! I don't know this guy. However, it's clear that he doesn't like reality, facts, links and other people's opinions if they aren't his too. It's also cleat he'll be frantically googling hotels and places I've been to try and diss me. Maybe he needs a break. Clearly some OCD going on there.


Seems to me that you're the one desperately trying to prove that your need to live in a dangerous sandpit means that everyone else is struggling.

NilSatis82 wrote:
Sorry, but anyone who knows anything about Poland, and indeed teaching, knows that this is pure fantasy for a newbie teacher.


It's all a matter of work ethic. Whether a newbie teacher *has* such a work ethic - well. Of course, it's an extreme example - but even just cutting it down to 90 minutes in the morning and 3 hours on a Saturday gives an extra 600zl a week, or 2400zl a month. Is working 90 minutes in the morning and 4 hours in the afternoon really anything special?

It's not impossible, it just depends how hard you're willing to work.

dynow wrote:
that number is reached if and only if there isn't a single holiday in there, a single sick day, a single vaction day, a single cancellation from your students, that it's NOT in the summer at all....not to mention, that you manage to put together and maintain a consistent 3 hour work schedule every single morning, M-F (contracts DO eventually end). your scenario never ever happens, so why even mention it?


It's all a matter of how hard you want something. I used to have a brilliant trick as a freelancer - I'd take (for instance) 90 minutes in the morning with an in-company class. I'd then approach whoever organised the lessons and ask them if they were interested in another 90 minute block at a "low" price. It worked a treat, although I'm sure the language schools would have had a fit if they knew what I was doing.

dynow wrote:
well, that's not entirely true. he did suggest as a solution to working every waking moment that one should make sure they eat their main meal at 2:30. problem solved. now you can go ahead and work a 45 lesson/week schedule and feel just fine


21 hours in the afternoon/evenings, 15 hours in the morning and 3 on Saturday. That gives 39 hours a week, or a full time job. Let's assume lesson preparation is overtime, so that's another 20 hours a week. A 60 hour work week doesn't seem to be anything special - doctors will do that, and their job is far more responsible than the average TEFL chimp.

Quote:
again, no secret as to why lindenia.net crashed and burned.


Didn't crash and burn, but hey Wink But it did need a difficult decision - give up teaching and concentrate on the business properly, or accept a job with management responsibility that meant not having time to be self employed anymore.
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 883
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odd....

Reality for the Poland and other places I lived in:

I had no students before 8:30am. Plenty of time for coffee and whatever breakfast I wanted before they arrived...in my own kitchen.

They came to my home. I could sleep until 8 without an issue and still have time for a coffee to tide me over until they were done at 9:30 or 10:00. Friday morning was open at 8:30, first student was at 11:00 to 12:30 depending on her schedule.

My next student was usually at 11:00 or 12:00 and went 90 minutes. We often had tea as part of that time.

My rates basically held steady at no less than 1zl/minute. This was on students in morning and mid-day, at my home with no travel. In fact, except for three students who took classes at restaurants and cafes from time to time I never traveled for any class. Admittedly, I don't know of anyone else who has managed that.

I didn't do anything on Saturday before 10:00 and finished by 4:30 with breaks in between. Mostly those times were movie -watching so no prep and I enjoyed the movie.

Wednesdays I only had one student in the AM and did nothing on Wednesday night except a social activity for a club I joined (where I picked up students and referrals).

No students were later than 9:00pm and the longest I went back-to-back without a break was a few four hour sessions due to juggling schedules and sick call-ins.

My high water mark was a 35 contact hours and only happened when I was transitioning students and doing a few makeups. Average was probably about 25-26.

Re: Nativespeaker

Lest anyone think I am in lockstep with DD I advertised there continuously at a rate of 75/hour. At one point I was advertising 90 and getting students. My rates were hourly but I rarely did a lesson that charged less than 90 minutes. The low charge was 110/90 for an 8:30-10am twice a week although I had a student doing 5 lessons a week for 1100zl. She usually cancelled 1 a week, occasionally 2 though due to work load - you can figure what that rate was but she started between 11:00 and 12:30 and went for 90. I freely admit she sometimes stayed 120 because we always had tea and cookies.

When I say advertised I mean free listings. I did promo three times during a year and a half for a total out-of-pocket ad expense of 75zl.

Re: Apartment prices

I was in the center with a fantastic apartment that ran a total of 2100 a month including cable, utilities and rent.

Re: Where to go to teach?

I am curious where some folks on here think newbies go work and get some fantastically different sort of deal?

I know guys who worked Ukraine for $800/month and a shared apartment that fit the generalized description of some of the inexperienced folks here (the ones that like four-letter words) but the guys and gals I met mostly seemed satisfied (there was one exception but only the one I recall). I pieced together work, learned about scheduling my time better (funny how every TEFL teacher knows about the afternoon dead time and early AM and afternoon travel/positioning requirements, eh?), got experience and was teaching in the MBA program of an English-speaking university in my 2nd and 3rd year which put me up over $3500 a month. by the 3rd year. I also was recruiting teachers for one of the school chains as well as placing Personal Assistants in companies that required English for a 10% of first year salary fee.

Wages in Azerbaijan were $2,250 base for up to 108 hours a month/30 hours a week maximum and I had to find my own apartment but did enough privates that I was hitting $3,000. Yeah I had 40 contact hour weeks but I picked fun students who were friends for dinners and sightseeing trips too. I lived well, traveled and rented out one room of my apartment for a few months to a guy who did a runner. In that time I managed to save over $5,000. They don't hire newbies there by the way.

I have friends teaching in Iraq, Japan, China, Indonesia, Russia, Ukraine and Poland as experienced teachers, everything from no credential at all up to MA/DELTA certs and there is nothing which would predict their earnings except their abilities to hustle except the two guys who are in Iraq and another in Libya. At least one of the Iraq guys got a vest to wear on the way to work with his armed guards riding shotgun.

I'm really curious where these newbies should go since some people are so insistent that there's no way they can survive here?


Last edited by ecocks on Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 883
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooops, clarifications:

The apartment was 2100 part of the time, the other part of the year it was 1750 or so. I also meant to add it would have been acceptable as a split situation.

YMMV of course.

This is a Poland thread, so I agree it is pretty weird to hold up someplace like Libya continually but would suggest some folks consider how all that Libya info got spouted in the first place and why it keeps coming up in the Poland thread. Other countries are useful for comparison of course, IF THEY ARE LIKE CIRCUMSTANCES and I have offered up some for examples for different experience levels, but there are successful TEFL teachers (and former TEFL teachers) in every country I've been in. At least two are making six-digits now.
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Sgt Bilko



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 125
Location: POLAND

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note to any prospective IH teachers reading this thread:

1 You will almost certainly not be allowed to teach for anyone else and will have to keep privates quiet as they are discouraged. I very much doubt if this has changed since I was there.

2 At Katowice, there may well be morning classes anyway as they have / had quite a few business contracts. There are also standby slots for absent teachers when you will have to be available.

3 If you are new to TEFL, forget privates. IH, is quite demanding. You'll have at least one input session and one teacher's meeting a week in the morning. There will be regular observations and you'll probably be coming in at 10am to plan for your afternoon lessons (the teachers' rooms are also social places so it's a nice place for a chat and, of course, there are computers and broadband for all your social networking)

4 So, pros of IH: you will be looked after, trained brilliantly, given opportunities to develop and be able to use the IH transfer system to move elsewhere after a year or two. cons of IH: forget saving anything - you may well have to subsidise yourself, especially if you want to see something of Poland (one of the main reasons for coming here I would have thought). Never mind. If you're careful and work a summer school in the UK for a month or two you should just about break even on the year.

5 If there's a choice of flats, choose one in a block rather than a nicer looking, converted house. The bills will be much lower.
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 883
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1

Looks like pretty practical, fairly represented advice.
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