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New teachers thinking of coming to Poland
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
Shake lives in Japan. What does that tell you?
It means TEFL in Poland is a tough place to make money in.
Dragopiwo is just being responsible. Don`t know why he gets so much flak.

Other guys have done the same as him, once they have a Polish spouse.
Polish women don`t always want to live outside Poland, too.
I did leave Poland. But the money I made living in Warsaw was definitely not one of the reasons I left. I left because I wanted to see Japan and to take on a new job with more responsibility. I don't have a wife and kids yet, but I do try to save some money every month. I never had a problem doing that teaching in Warsaw. I know loads of teachers there who have no problem providing for their family on a tefl salary in Poland.

I don't buy these arguments that it's necessary to sacrifice decades of your life living apart from your family in a dull, hostile or unpleasant place in order to provide 'the best' for your family. Your son may have the fastest computer in his class, DP, and he may go on the most expensive ski camps, but have you ever asked him if he'd prefer having his father around instead of the toys and trips?

Millions of Polish families make do on much less than the 6.5k/month DP's mates in Poznan make, so why can't an expat manage? Furthermore, it's definitely possible to earn more than 6.5 k/month teaching in Warsaw.

Lastly, let's not forget that you can enjoy life a lot more in your 20's and 30's than you can when you're 50+ (although, of course, you can enjoy life at any age Smile. So your sacrificing the best years of your life for material gain if you choose to haul off to some sandbox and live in what's basically a minimum security prison for 10+ years.

Once again, if DP's lifestyle works for him, that's fantastic, more power to ya. But he's constantly boasting about his wealth and job in Libya like he's figured out this miracle solution to living in Poland.

There is an easier way.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15341

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leave Poland ? I am constantly baffled by the huge disparities in living standards between Poland and its Western neighbour. Why is in Poland in such a bad way and a net exporter of Labour when Germany continues as the economic powerhouse of Europe.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1644
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:23 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

Scott it's simply because Germany is managed well. The real story in Poland will happen when these huge tranches of money from the EU stop. Countries like Poland joining the EU was a huge game winner for lots of companies from 'old Europe'.

And Shake, having kids was the game changer financially. Expats simply don't have the support in Poland that the locals have. Also, many Poles have grown up living frugally, so are used to it. Many of the Poles I know also got given their flats and lived at home till they were relatively old. I spent a lot of time in the Czech Republic and then Poland and left when I was 30 and I had a lot of fun. I then had 3 great years in Qatar. These sandpits can be better than anything I've ever seen in Poland, so it doesn't need to be hell. Libya is a sacrifice but it is what it is and the truth is, a means to and end. I get a lot of holidays and can really live and I like that. Plus, you get used to the rotational lifestyle. I don't mean to boast, I just relate what actually happens. I've got pals in Saudi who are there with their families having a great time and raking it in. They all plan on living in Poland long-term. What's more, you actually work less in these sandpits, way less.

The trend in Poland and indeed Europe is for things to be getting costlier long-term. I don't see TEFL salaries getting better, so it's down to the 'How many hours of extra stuff can I do a week?'. I can tell you now because I actually live in Poland and first arrived in 96 that I've never seen so many teachers around. It won't get better in TEFL-land Poland.

I'm not telling everyone to do what I'm doing because I know some people, many, can't hack this. However, I am saying that there are options, which many Polish vets have indeed taken that involve leaving Poland for a while. In the 10 years I've been where I am, I've spent 5+ of them in Poland if that makes sense. DD's maths is wrong as he knows no facts about my rotation.

Mitsui thanks for pointing that out. I know dozens of people who do what I'm doing.

Ecocks all this +1 stuff is retarded. I thought you'd left Poland.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15341

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What sort of country depends on exporting labour to support its people ?
I live in a relatively poor part of Scotland. Thousands of Poles here - not because they like it but because they cannot survive back in Polska !
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MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
What sort of country depends on exporting labour to support its people ?


Poor countries, the ME is full of Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Chinese and Filipinos who all send most of their money home. Ireland fell into the same category for a long time.
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 899
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
Shake lives in Japan. What does that tell you?
It means TEFL in Poland is a tough place to make money in.
Dragopiwo is just being responsible. Don`t know why he gets so much flak.

Other guys have done the same as him, once they have a Polish spouse.
Polish women don`t always want to live outside Poland, too.


Tells me that:

1. You don't know diddly about Shake.

2. You don't know much about the TEFL teaching vocation.
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 899
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparks wrote:
And the insecure egomaniacs begin to ruin another thread which really has nothing to do with them...


+3

Boy you called this one right out of the gate.
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, been abroad since 1996.
I was one of the first posters on this website.

The usual drivel. We are all adults here. People make choices with where they want to live.
Sure you can disagree, but no need to be sanctimonious.

Lots of Poles work abroad to make money. Some want to stay in Poland and do their best. I won`t say which one is better, but raising a family in Poland must be challenging.
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ecocks



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 899
Location: Gdansk, Poland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
Nope, been abroad since 1996.
I was one of the first posters on this website.

The usual drivel. We are all adults here. People make choices with where they want to live.
Sure you can disagree, but no need to be sanctimonious.

Lots of Poles work abroad to make money. Some want to stay in Poland and do their best. I won`t say which one is better, but raising a family in Poland must be challenging.


Yeah, reminds me of all the native-speaker TEFL teachers....all of whom...work abroad...

Go figure.

#2 surprised me about you too. Having read your posts about TEFL work and lifestyles in Japan led me to expect better. I know four people currently teaching in Japan, none of them ever mentioned doing it for the money.

A very large percentage of TEFL teachers are not motivated by money, don't consider pension plans a factor, don't care to own a car and have no interest in buying a home, so when someone continually goes on and on about it they lose credibility while the people actually living and working there grow tired of it. Then there's the psychological issues of feeling compelled to tell everyone how much you spend on things that have no bearing on 99% of TEFL teachers' lives. There's a big difference between grocery bills and children's camp fees, the price of beer and ordering champagne at a meal or discussing weekend getaways versus retelling your wedding reception expenses over and over when it comes to relevance of an expat living in a country, usually for a limited number of years.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1644
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Ecocks Reply with quote

Every TEFL teacher I know in the Middle East is there precisely because of the money. If I interviewed someone and they didn't mention money, I probably wouldn't hire them as I'd see them as not being up-front. There are way more TEFL teachers in Saudi than Poland, so I'd say the vast majority at some point do think about the future and material things. It's no coincidence that most are married or are in long-term relationships or are divorced and having to pay for that.

Just about every TEFL teacher I know in Poland has at some point had the jitters about cash too. I know because I've lent people money on countless occasions over the years but that's what mates do.

Normal people do get married, do go on honeymoons, do treat the missus to the odd fancy night out and do give their kids as much as they can. It's relevant to life in and out of Poland and the profession is really irrelevant. All I know is that I couldn't have done the things I've done, many of which are 'normal' things, on a TEFL salary there even with the 20 hours a week of privates on top of the 'job'.

Some of these teachers have spent far too much time living in the bubble of 'self' and have totally lost touch with what is normal for most other people. We all sit here in the Middle East repeating 'I can't believe I put up with that sh*t for so long' when we talk about teaching in Europe. The current staffroom consists of 6 teachers who are resident in Poland, Italy, Turkey, Russia, France and Scotland. All of us are married or in very long-term relationships and 5 of us have kids. All of us topped out financially where we were.

If you're a young, single dude, Poland's a lot of fun for a few years. It's always been a good place to get some experience. Go there, have fun but one day the money will bite you in the as*.
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iknowwhatiamtalkingabout



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Ecocks Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
We all sit here in the Middle East repeating 'I can't believe I put up with that sh*t for so long' when we talk about teaching in Europe.


I work in Asia now, and that's been my experience of Europe vets too. Always the same story, looking back amazed that we put up with it.

There are things I miss about Europe, much as there would be things I'd miss about Asia if I left here. But in terms of lifestyle and work/life balance for a tefl teacher, Europe is miles and miles behind.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11531
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But in terms of lifestyle and work/life balance for a tefl teacher, Europe is miles and miles behind.



At the entry level, that may be true. But for those of us who have paid dues and moved up the food chain, absolutely not. There are jobs here that pay enough to save up/buy a flat,car/offer very decent holidays/raise a family. But you don't walk into them in year one or two, and it takes better than entry-level qualifications. However, it can be very much worth it.

No way in the world would I make a move to either Asia or the ME.
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iknowwhatiamtalkingabout



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
Quote:
But in terms of lifestyle and work/life balance for a tefl teacher, Europe is miles and miles behind.



At the entry level, that may be true. But for those of us who have paid dues and moved up the food chain, absolutely not. There are jobs here that pay enough to save up/buy a flat,car/offer very decent holidays/raise a family. But you don't walk into them in year one or two, and it takes better than entry-level qualifications. However, it can be very much worth it.

No way in the world would I make a move to either Asia or the ME.


I'm not disputing that. But in general the conditions for a tefl teacher in Europe are simply a good deal worse in Europe than they are elsewhere.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
At the entry level, that may be true. But for those of us who have paid dues and moved up the food chain, absolutely not. There are jobs here that pay enough to save up/buy a flat,car/offer very decent holidays/raise a family. But you don't walk into them in year one or two, and it takes better than entry-level qualifications. However, it can be very much worth it.


I'm actually sitting here now wondering what to do with myself. I've got six weeks paid holidays, with the seventh week very likely to be free as well. I'm not expected to do anything in that time, and all the preparation for the next school year was done last week.

The jobs are certainly out here, but it requires more skill than simply teaching the same old tedious grammar.

Quote:
No way in the world would I make a move to either Asia or the ME.


Doesn't appeal to me as well.

Quote:
I'm not disputing that. But in general the conditions for a tefl teacher in Europe are simply a good deal worse in Europe than they are elsewhere.


That's why you should move up rather than remaining a TEFL teacher. I looked years ago at the 1000 EUR/month salaries in Madrid and realised that there's absolutely no sense whatsoever in remaining a teacher at the lowest level in Europe.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1644
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:24 pm    Post subject: so Reply with quote

So what exactly do you do Delph? Teach? Manage? Language School or one of those private IB type schools that have popped up?

I'd love to know cos just a few days ago you were going on about teaching at VW in Swarzedz.
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