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New teachers thinking of coming to Poland
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: er Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
Here we wear pretty much what we want but I wear 'Chino-type' trousers and a shirt from M and S usually.


It always makes me laugh that jobs like yours are relaxed about clothes, but then you get utter rubbish Callan schools paying 30zl an hour that expect teachers to wear ties and so on.

Quote:
And while I'm sure kids need a male influence in primary, I remember that my friend Fiona did a BEd Primary twenty-something years ago and she used to invite me and my pals to the bashes because 8 out of 10 undergrads were female and the 2 that weren't were gay. That always made me laugh. I'm not saying that gay men can't be macho but usually they aren't Smile. I'm not sure that kids need to be shown the art of mincing about.


That's pretty much the entire problem in primary teaching to be honest. A friend of mine walked into a job in the UK (and primary teaching jobs are bloody hard to get) simply because he is a man's man. He's not a great teacher, but he's a big bloke who thinks nothing of doing dangerous stuff at the weekend - at the same time, he takes no nonsense whatsoever from kids. They love him, unsurprisingly.

It's a shame that primary teaching is seen in such a bad light by men - for me, it's far more interesting and rewarding than working with sulky teenagers or braindead corporate drones.
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MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 966
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: er Reply with quote

[quote="delphian-domine
That's pretty much the entire problem in primary teaching to be honest. A friend of mine walked into a job in the UK (and primary teaching jobs are bloody hard to get) simply because he is a man's man. He's not a great teacher, but he's a big bloke who thinks nothing of doing dangerous stuff at the weekend - at the same time, he takes no nonsense whatsoever from kids. They love him, unsurprisingly.

It's a shame that primary teaching is seen in such a bad light by men - for me, it's far more interesting and rewarding than working with sulky teenagers or braindead corporate drones.[/quote]

The problem is that he'll probably be promoted out of the classroom fairly rapidly. Certainly my observation of male primary teachers.
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sparks



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 522

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had pretty much the exact same experience teaching primary school here, did it for several years and while I thought I sucked unbearably at it, I kept getting rave reviews and more and more requests to teach all kinds of lessons. I really don't understand it.
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MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 966
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparks wrote:
I had pretty much the exact same experience teaching primary school here, did it for several years and while I thought I sucked unbearably at it, I kept getting rave reviews and more and more requests to teach all kinds of lessons. I really don't understand it.


Maybe it's just that men are better at everything?!! Ducks for cover grateful that VS and NS don't visit this board!
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NilSatis82



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delphian-domine wrote:
NilSatis82 wrote:
It's only irrelevant if you think that how you present yourself in your place of work is unimportant. Why do you think it's the norm around the world for people to wear smart clothes even when they work in an office and will never speak face-to-face with clients?


It depends on the country and the situation. Polish culture doesn't demand formality at all times, and in many businesses, wearing formal clothes to work would be seen in a rather odd light. It would certainly stand out a mile in a primary school and even more so in a kindergarten.

One of the most striking things about Polish business culture is that many businesses simply don't demand formality if the occasion doesn't demand it.

Quote:
If my boss turned up for work wearing a Nirvana t-shirt, I would think he were a bit of a tramp and not someone worthy of much respect.

Depends on the situation, doesn't it? Wearing such a thing to a meeting with the bank might not be wise, but to turn up to a normal day in work, I don't think anyone cares or is even interested.


Yes, absolutely it depends. If you're a builder, it's acceptable. However, if you're working in a school, be it teacher, manager or whatever, then there are certain standards of dress that are normally expected. This doesn't mean you have to wear a suit, but I have yet to come across a school in Poland or elsewhere where turning up wearing a Nirvana t-shirt and generally looking like a complete scruff would be acceptable.
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NilSatis82



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: er Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
That always made me laugh. I'm not saying that gay men can't be macho but usually they aren't Smile. I'm not sure that kids need to be shown the art of mincing about.


On the other hand, there isn't nearly enough aggressive behaviour in British towns and cities at the weekend, so better teach them while they're young. Wink
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NilSatis82 wrote:
Yes, absolutely it depends. If you're a builder, it's acceptable. However, if you're working in a school, be it teacher, manager or whatever, then there are certain standards of dress that are normally expected. This doesn't mean you have to wear a suit, but I have yet to come across a school in Poland or elsewhere where turning up wearing a Nirvana t-shirt and generally looking like a complete scruff would be acceptable.


It all depends. I know one vice-director of a school that wears tracksuits, simply because he's a PE teacher by trade and so wears one because he still has teaching duties.

But in schools, there are no expected norms in public or private schools in general. If you take a look in a normal public school, jeans are commonplace, younger teachers will tend to wear whatever, and there is somewhat of an absence of a dress code. I've visited quite a few schools as part of my job, and the striking thing is just how teachers dress in Poland in general.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 849
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

Polish guys have always looked like Cindy Lauper on crack when it comes to style.

The women on the other hand......

Except at weddings when anyone over 50 looks like they've stepped off the set of Dallas.
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NilSatis82



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delphian-domine wrote:
NilSatis82 wrote:
Yes, absolutely it depends. If you're a builder, it's acceptable. However, if you're working in a school, be it teacher, manager or whatever, then there are certain standards of dress that are normally expected. This doesn't mean you have to wear a suit, but I have yet to come across a school in Poland or elsewhere where turning up wearing a Nirvana t-shirt and generally looking like a complete scruff would be acceptable.


It all depends. I know one vice-director of a school that wears tracksuits, simply because he's a PE teacher by trade and so wears one because he still has teaching duties.

So presumably your boss is a groupie by trade then?

delphian-domine wrote:
But in schools, there are no expected norms in public or private schools in general. If you take a look in a normal public school, jeans are commonplace, younger teachers will tend to wear whatever, and there is somewhat of an absence of a dress code. I've visited quite a few schools as part of my job, and the striking thing is just how teachers dress in Poland in general.

There might not be explicit dress codes everywhere but there are unwritten expectations about what people wear or don't wear in every school in Poland, which are based on societal values as to how teachers and managers should present themselves. I can't think of any Polish parents that would think it appropriate for their child's teacher to turn up wearing a Nirvana t-shirt.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NilSatis82 wrote:
So presumably your boss is a groupie by trade then?


Nice logic Wink It's a reflection of the general culture - the focus is on education, not on irrelevant things.

delphian-domine wrote:
There might not be explicit dress codes everywhere but there are unwritten expectations about what people wear or don't wear in every school in Poland, which are based on societal values as to how teachers and managers should present themselves. I can't think of any Polish parents that would think it appropriate for their child's teacher to turn up wearing a Nirvana t-shirt.


The thing is that parents don't seem to care. I've had this discussion with quite a few people, and the general consensus is that clothes are irrelevant, especially in the nursery-6th class age range. Of course - to deal with annoying 13-16 year olds, you need to dress in a certain way just to make them respect you, but it especially doesn't apply to those teaching from 3-9.

It might not apply to all schools (I can think of at least two dreadful schools where children and teachers alike are supposed to be clones - both private schools with poor results but a great image) - but in my experience, dress is way, way down the list of priorities for most parents. I don't think it's ever been brought up as an issue.

For what it's worth, the general approach to clothing can be seen in the people who represent book publishers. I don't think anyone has ever visited me wearing formal clothes - they've been neat, sure - but never formal.
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dynow



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1038

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My two cents on dress code:

Always dress a half step above your clients. You don't want to look too dapper because it looks like you're trying too hard but you need to look the part. We live in a world where appearances count so why put yourself at a disadvantage.
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 978
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dynow wrote:
My two cents on dress code:

Always dress a half step above your clients. You don't want to look too dapper because it looks like you're trying too hard but you need to look the part. We live in a world where appearances count so why put yourself at a disadvantage.
Sound advice if you ask me. It's no extra effort to throw on a shirt with a collar and some dress shoes anyway. And you can rest assured your clients will never be thinking, "I'm paying 100zl+ an hour for a guy wearing a Nirvana t-shirt??"

I used to be a heavy metal t-shirt and shorts guy before I came to Poland. My how times have changed.

One reason people are so quick to judge based on dress in Warsaw is because of the multitudes of homeless people around the city. Odds are the shabby, scruffy looking guy/gal you're next to on the tram will start producing a tortuously foul aroma the moment you sit down. This problem is so bad they were even considering making it illegal to stink on trams a few months ago.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9639
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
they were even considering making it illegal to stink on trams a few months ago


What a great idea! I hope it will spread region-wide. I'll vote for it!!!
In my part of the world, early spring is the worst. That's when the outer layer of coats come off, baring sweaters unwashed for at least 6 months.
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MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 966
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
Quote:
they were even considering making it illegal to stink on trams a few months ago


What a great idea! I hope it will spread region-wide.


If they introduced that law in Paris everybody would be ok going to work (perfume masks the stink in the morning) but nobody would be able to get home!
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NilSatis82



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delphian-domine wrote:
NilSatis82 wrote:
So presumably your boss is a groupie by trade then?


Nice logic Wink It's a reflection of the general culture - the focus is on education, not on irrelevant things.


Well, it's clear that you think the way you present yourself at work is irrelevant, however, most people (including parents) would disagree.

delphian-domine wrote:
but in my experience, dress is way, way down the list of priorities for most parents. I don't think it's ever been brought up as an issue.


I don't doubt that, doesn't mean teachers should wear what they like though.
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