Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Best path to qualifying for direct hire at a uni?
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Middle East Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
romermac



Joined: 17 Apr 2014
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Best path to qualifying for direct hire at a uni? Reply with quote

Hello!

Here is a quick snapshot of my husband and I:

Us: American

Me: M.S. in Applied Psychology, CELTA (pending), 1 year TEFL experience (elementary/middle school) in Korea, 2 years TEFL (high school) experience in Cameroon, and 1 year teaching psychology at a U.S. university

Husband: B.A. in Psychology, CELTA (pending), 1 year TEFL experience (elementary/middle school) in Korea, 1 year music teaching assistant at a U.S. university, some published writing (9 articles)

OUR GOAL: eventually obtain direct hire TEFL positions at universities in the ME.

I have 3 questions:

(1) Which strategy would put us in a better position to achieve our goal: getting university experience in China or South Korea for 1-2 years, OR signing on with a contractor in the ME? (OR perhaps there is another strategy you would like to suggest?)

(2) Can anyone provide a list of acceptable contractors who hire for positions teaching adults? This list would be especially helpful if the contractors were ranked from best to least good. Wink

(3) Is anyone willing to critique our resumes for us? I haven't posted much on this forum, so I cannot PM. If you are willing to look at our resumes, will you please PM me your email address?

Thank you in advance for your responses!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 830
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korea after the CELTA. You need post-CELTA experience, pre-CELTA isn't usually recognized. Also you have unrelated degrees so anything you could get in the ME would be badly paid and probably terrible conditions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
romermac



Joined: 17 Apr 2014
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your response, Muscat!

Do you think Korea is a better choice because the conditions would be better, or because the experience would be viewed more favorably by ME employers? I am interested in knowing which scenario will have a greater impact on achieving our direct-hire-in-the-ME goal down the line.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 830
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mainly because with the qualifications that you both have you would only get bad gigs at the moment in the ME which could put you off. Hopefully some of the others will jump in and advise soon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16063
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously, to get the position that you seem to want - good direct hire conditions and good pay - you both need to get related MAs plus a couple years of related teaching after you finish.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9484
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(OR perhaps there is another strategy you would like to suggest?)


As the better positions ask for related MAs and experience after it, if the ME is really your goal, consider further education.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16063
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh look Spiral... we're synchronized posting... the same advice at the same time. Laughing

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9484
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing I think that's 'cause the advice was pretty obvious in this case, VS. Anyway, I'm slowly working up to my 10,000 milestone in post counts, so occasionally weighing in off my normal turf.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 830
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
Seriously, to get the position that you seem to want - good direct hire conditions and good pay - you both need to get related MAs plus a couple years of related teaching after you finish.VS


+4 post Masters paid teaching in Oman before it's recognized by the MOHE.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 4274
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Best path to qualifying for direct hire at a uni? Reply with quote

romermac wrote:
(1) Which strategy would put us in a better position to achieve our goal: getting university experience in China or South Korea for 1-2 years, OR signing on with a contractor in the ME? (OR perhaps there is another strategy you would like to suggest?)

(2) Can anyone provide a list of acceptable contractors who hire for positions teaching adults? This list would be especially helpful if the contractors were ranked from best to least good.

In addition to the better, direct-hire opportunities, Saudi Arabia is where you'll also see many teaching positions advertised with contracting companies. Once you and your husband complete your CELTAs, you'd likely qualify for one of those positions. However, your idea of contractors "ranked from best to least good" isn't realistic since they're all sketchy to various degrees---some worse than others. Plus, working for a Saudi contractor isn't a path to direct-hire positions; as others have mentioned, that would require a relevant master's degree.

Be aware that if you pursue a TEFL-related MA, it should be completed via traditional (on campus) learning. Currently, the governments of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar do not accept degrees that include online coursework even if through a bricks-n-mortar university. The UAE does, but the country's public universities are slated to phase out their English foundation programs starting in 2018.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
romermac



Joined: 17 Apr 2014
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I appreciate you taking the time to respond. A few more questions/points of clarification:

We're a little old and a little too far in debt from our degrees to go back to school, unfortunately.

- Would a DELTA plus post-DELTA experience suffice?
- How many years of post-DELTA experience would be necessary?


(I understand that the related MA + 2 years experience is the basic qualification. However, sometimes "equivalent experience" can "replace" the specific degree requirement.)

I have been scouring the forums and have heard all about the contractors, so I understand the risk. I also used to work in a very difficult African country, so I understand/have experienced many of the behaviors mentioned. Not that I profess to know about the KSA .. I only mean to indicate that I'm aware of the magnitude of the challenge.

- Can anyone name any contracting company that they have noticed a pattern of relatively positive comments about?


One last question: Given the above bit about "equivalent experience", I'm confused as to why a contracting company wouldn't be a path to direct hire. Perhaps the words "path" is a bad choice. When I say "path", I mean "way to sufficiently upgrade our qualifications". Anyway, it seems that some countries don't necessarily respect experience in another country or university system. It also seems that some employers highly value experience in their region. This is why I was wondering about the contracting companies, as that's what they would offer. (I've seen them recommended for "starters" like us.)

- Is the consensus that uni experience outside the ME would be viewed more favorably than contractor experience in the ME?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 4274
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

romermac wrote:
- Would a DELTA plus post-DELTA experience suffice?
- How many years of post-DELTA experience would be necessary?

(I understand that the related MA + 2 years experience is the basic qualification. However, sometimes "equivalent experience" can "replace" the specific degree requirement.)

For direct-hire opportunities, the Delta, although beneficial, does not replace the requirement of a relevant MA. Ditto for "equivalent experience" (whatever that means) since employers also expect to see relevant experience as well. In other words, both the degree and experience need to be relevant to the TEFL position. Be aware the Ministry of Higher Education, and not the employer, generally sets the degree requirement.

and wrote:
I have been scouring the forums and have heard all about the contractors, so I understand the risk. I also used to work in a very difficult African country, so I understand/have experienced many of the behaviors mentioned. Not that I profess to know about the KSA .. I only mean to indicate that I'm aware of the magnitude of the challenge.

Can anyone name any contracting company that they have noticed a pattern of relatively positive comments about?

Unfortunately, no, although some contracting companies may be less sketchy than others. Anyway, the Saudi forum is full of threads about these companies. You'd be hard pressed to find favorable comments.

lastly wrote:
One last question: Given the above bit about "equivalent experience", I'm confused as to why a contracting company wouldn't be a path to direct hire. Perhaps the words "path" is a bad choice. When I say "path", I mean "way to sufficiently upgrade our qualifications". Anyway, it seems that some countries don't necessarily respect experience in another country or university system. It also seems that some employers highly value experience in their region. This is why I was wondering about the contracting companies, as that's what they would offer. (I've seen them recommended for "starters" like us.)

Is the consensus that uni experience outside the ME would be viewed more favorably than contractor experience in the ME?

Direct-hire employers first look at the applicant's academic credential and major; it's the main determining factor. If it's relevant, the next thing they consider is related experience. However, if the degree is not relevant, the applicant is seen as not meeting the requirements for the position regardless of the number of years of university-level teaching experience. For example, applicant Bob has an MA in Media Studies + CELTA + 5 years' TEFL experience from universities in Asia and 2 years from a university in Saudi Arabia (via a contracting company). Applicant Tom holds an MA in Applied Linguistics + CELTA + 2 years' experience teaching EFL in a Korean university. Direct-hire employers will pass on Bob despite his specific Saudi teaching experience.

Ironically, you'll notice some of the Saudi contracting companies have posted job openings requiring relevant degrees. This may be a directive from their "client" (AKA the university). Whether they get applicants with those qualifications is another matter. Plus, contracting companies have been known to bend the rules.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16063
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

romermac wrote:
- Is the consensus that uni experience outside the ME would be viewed more favorably than contractor experience in the ME?

Consensus? Maybe... probably... depends on employer... supply/demand. Actually my choice would be the opposite.

I would say that teaching in a Foundations/IEP/PYP program with Arabic speakers will be the preferred experience. Next would probably be such a program in an English speaking country. At the bottom of this list would be teaching in an Asian university. That is because entering students in that part of the world have quite different needs from these Arabic speakers.

I don't think "contractor or not' really enters into the decision. Contractors are not an entry path to direct hire (though it could happen), but a way for the universities to save money by handing off the aggravation of foreign hired teachers who tend to have expectations... Cool

As to acceptance of the DELTA, it wouldn't work as a replacement for the MA. What happens in the Gulf is that some employers lean towards an American system and some lean towards the UK system. The latter will naturally give more credit for a DELTA than the former.

The reality is that without that MA and 2-4 years of related experience, you will have great difficulty getting any university job with good conditions - especially for women. Obviously you are looking at this as a way to get out of debt. Nothing wrong with that, but you will most likely be forced to use the shady contractors and put up with the negatives.

There really are no good ones... mostly they range from "Almost OK" to "Total Nightmare" and they also tend to change positions on that scale. Thus last year's worst nightmare may be OK this year... or vice-versa. If I were having to make a decision on this I would look at where I would teach and whether they pay on time. The rest is background noise... and everyone deals with that differently.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
romermac



Joined: 17 Apr 2014
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand.

I wonder if I am being too narrow-minded by specifying "direct hire" and "university".
- Are there other ME EFL positions/employers that you would recommend looking into as a long-term goal?
(Recommendations should be feasible without relevant MAs.)

People talk a lot about "good conditions" and "bad conditions". This is very subjective, so I'm not sure we share the same understanding of what constitutes "good" or "bad". Let's define our terms:
- What are "good conditions", "acceptable/ok conditions", and "bad conditions" to you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Fifth Column



Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 331
Location: His habitude with lexical items protrudes not unlike a damaged pollex!!!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that what people are trying to drill home is that ANY kind of "shortcut" (my terminology) will leave one upset and posting on this board over horrible treatment at some future date. I, personally, dropped out of Saudi employment (a single-income family man!), went and got my M. Ed. in TESOL, did "the dirty" (taught some Gulf Arab military types) for a few years...for the required post-Master's experience, got hired by a quasi-college/university (they're ALL "quasi-") and left with a bag full of money and few regrets.

BUT that's because, I did the right route for that part of the world.

Now, I get to read about people who whinge about their horrible contractor experiences...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Middle East Forum All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC