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Select Empolyment /TEFL R- In Turkey ( Improper Contracts)
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Redcar24



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Al Hassa Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:10 pm    Post subject: Select Empolyment /TEFL R- In Turkey ( Improper Contracts) Reply with quote

‎July‎ ‎1
Tefl Recruitment
‎8‎:‎29‎ ‎AM
Not yet Cynthia even my manager has just arrived now at the Office. I asked him about the accomodation explaining your situation and he told me that he is still waiting reply from the school and let usknow oncehe get it‏
‎Tuesday
Tefl Recruitment
‎12‎:‎59‎ ‎PM
Hi Cynthia‏
me
‎1‎:‎00‎ ‎PM
Hello I am here‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎1‎:‎01‎ ‎PM
okey house is ok‏
me
‎1‎:‎02‎ ‎PM
Alright can you tell me where it is? ‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎1‎:‎03‎ ‎PM
in EMEK 72. street‏
apartment no: 45‏
‎1‎:‎04‎ ‎PM
house no :5‏
me
‎1‎:‎06‎ ‎PM
Ok thank and is that close to the school? ‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎1‎:‎24‎ ‎PM
school is in the centre of Ankara, Kızılay‏
In Kızılay there is no houses all workshops and education and government institutions‏
me
‎1‎:‎25‎ ‎PM
How far is the apartment from the school?‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎1‎:‎26‎ ‎PM
it is close to metro and Kızılay is the main station of school‏
sorry‏
main station of metro‏
close to biggest AVM of Ankara it is really central‏
me
‎1‎:‎27‎ ‎PM
What does that mean is it 2 kilos 5 kilos or more from the school‏?
Tefl Recruitment
‎1‎:‎33‎ ‎PM
As I am not living there I couldnt tell you exactly right now but emek is the central places of Ankara and one of the closest places to Kızılay. It couldnt take more than 15 minutes from Emek to Kızılay through Metro‏
me
‎1‎:‎34‎ ‎PM
Ok‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎1‎:‎34‎ ‎PM
I have to ask your apologiser as I am at home now and have to prepare dinner‏
‎1‎:‎35‎ ‎PM
I opened it just to inform you about the house tomorrow ı will send you the contract and get more information about the house‏
and let you know‏
me
‎1‎:‎35‎ ‎PM
Ok if I have more questions I will talk with you tomorrow 6am my time.‏
‎1‎:‎36‎ ‎PM
Have a great night and enjoy your dinner. Thanks for all your help.‏
yesterday
Tefl Recruitment
‎10‎:‎06‎ ‎AM
Cynthia‏
‎10‎:‎08‎ ‎AM
Isaid you that I am going to send you thecontract today but I was and actually even I am still very busy got the information about your house also but can I send them to you tomorrow morning I have a doctor appointment and haveto leave‏
me
‎10‎:‎18‎ ‎AM
Yes I am waiting‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎10‎:‎20‎ ‎AM
thank you‏
me
‎10‎:‎21‎ ‎AM
You sre welcome‏
‎10‎:‎22‎ ‎AM
Opps you are welcome‏
today
Tefl Recruitment
‎3‎:‎30‎ ‎AM
Hi Cynthia‏
‎3‎:‎31‎ ‎AM
Officially are you using as a name Cynthia HERZOG or Cynhthia Fay HERZOG‏
me
‎7‎:‎04‎ ‎AM
Cynthia Herzog but my passport says Cynthia Fay herzog‏
‎7‎:‎21‎ ‎AM
I need to talk to you about the contract‏
‎7‎:‎23‎ ‎AM
The contract should say where I am teaching and where I am living due to it being a temporary contract‏
‎7‎:‎30‎ ‎AM
and it needs to state the covered ticket from Istanbul to Ankara as well as the expense to change my ticket which will be up to 250 dollars‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎7‎:‎30‎ ‎AM
Cynthia I dont have the open adressof the building or the Center even I have it we are never writing ths informations on the contract but informing teachersr and for the house ı have already sent it to you.‏
Once you sign the contract we will buy the İstanbul ankara ticket‏
‎7‎:‎31‎ ‎AM
and for the cahnging fee I wil try to convince them but make it clear and let me know please and send me your ticket number also‏
me
‎7‎:‎32‎ ‎AM
The contract states that you can send me to any job anywhere in turkey up to Sept 30 and that is not what we discussed and it does not state where I will live‏
I can not change my ticket without your agreement either I am sorry‏
‎7‎:‎33‎ ‎AM
when I change the ticket it has to be paid immediately‏
‎7‎:‎35‎ ‎AM
As for giving me the information on the house you only gave me the area‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎7‎:‎35‎ ‎AM
If you mean that ıf they wont pay you are not coming then I will inform them. Or if youwould like to come anyway youcan change it anyway and I will try to convince them. If you choose the frst option I will call my manager.‏
No I have already sent you the open adreess.‏
‎7‎:‎36‎ ‎AM
[8.7.2014 19:59:01] Tefl Recruitment: in EMEK 72. street
apartment no: 45
house no :5

<<< ‏
me
‎7‎:‎36‎ ‎AM
Look good faith means to be honest about everything if it isn't stated in the contract.‏
‎7‎:‎38‎ ‎AM
The way the contract reads is not clear as to where I will work and where I will live you can not just say it ....It needs to be stated in the contract too!‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎7‎:‎46‎ ‎AM
We are never state these informations on the contract, I am repeating, even we are normally not giving accommdation to the teachers we are just helping to them to find a house but as you asked me that you need a job urgently I agreed with them in order to give you an oopprtunity before August, you told me that yu are going to pay a rent in Adana and you couldnt afford a second one I talked with them at leasttwelve times and convincedthem to hire a place for you.You were ready even for a room but they found a apartment for you. Forshort terms they arenot buying ticket but for you theyare going to pay for your Istanbul Ankara ticket. Now we are osing time just because thattheaddresses not wrtitten on the contract. We are not writing school or house informations on he contract. If you would lile to give up please let me know‏
‎7‎:‎48‎ ‎AM
You have the address of the apartment and the Center will be in Kızılay and our place is in Kızılay too.‏
‎7‎:‎49‎ ‎AM
For the international ticketI am not promising but I will do mybest to convncethem to pay ypur forthe changing fee but I am notsure‏
me
‎9‎:‎23‎ ‎AM
Do you think it is fair during Ramadan and I am Muslim by the way? So that you know? Do you think it is fair for me to travel miss my prayers and fasting come to Turkey without a proper contract and no ticket from Istanbul to Ankara and also pay 250 plus out of my own pocket for a job and a contract that is written and paid by your company and the terms are unclear....I am so sorry to have bothered you and you should be ashamed to do this to me after all this time has passed...‏
‎9‎:‎24‎ ‎AM
No I don't need this contract and I thank Allah I am in my own country even if most people don't understand Ramadan‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎9‎:‎30‎ ‎AM
All we arestiil working during Ramadan and fasting Cynthia I couldnt uunderstand the relation between Ramadan or being Muslim. I have already told you thatonce you sign the contract and let me know about your comng date we will purchuase your Istanbul Ankara ticket. I didnt do anythşng to you you inssted on writing working and living centre on the contract and I refused it. You told me the ticket changing fee and I told you that I am not promising but after your arrival I will do my best according to the amount. Ikept my promise I arranged a job for you immediately, I arranged your accommodation. I talked wit the institution and even witm my manager for your rights. I just not accept to write addresses on the cntract as we are not writing thats all. And asked you if you wont accept just to letme know. Now you aretalking about praying and fasting and Ramadan. We are living Ramadan here anad weare not reviving it as it has no concern with Ramadan.‏
me
‎9‎:‎35‎ ‎AM
Ok I will post this conversation to Daves Café and see if Ramadan has to do with cheating people on contracts let’s see what the Holy month of Ramadan means? Shame on you‏
‎9‎:‎36‎ ‎AM
When you don't write the school name and accommodation in any contract that means you the company will not pay‏
I am not stupid ....and I am really embarrassed to have to speak to you like this ...Select has a bad reputation and this is why ....Thanks‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎9‎:‎47‎ ‎AM
I suggest you to write carefully as you are insulting. I have already told you thatthis is not a school. This is a center that would like to arrange English lessons to their employees and lessons will be done in a building/ workshop in Kızılay. I know what does Ramadan means, Iam saying that there is no any connection with Ramadan while we are talking you about the contractdetails. You justsurprised me and I can not believe the way you are talking with me. I am okay Cynthia I didnt do anything unfair or bad. I did my bestfrom the beginning, act however you want but we didnt deserve it wesad okay whatever you want you are just acting like that because of unimportant things like adresses, I can easily understand that you wontaccept the sign the contract as address not written on it but I could not understand your behaviours and your sayings about fasting praying or Ramadan.‏
me
‎9‎:‎51‎ ‎AM
I suggest that you need to be honest with your contract details and not leave out important points and the holy month of Ramadan is important to people like me who cover and pray and fast. Also it means to pray for others and treat them in fairness and I will pray for you but leaving out details in any contract is Haram and this is something you know about.....‏
Tefl Recruitment
‎9‎:‎57‎ ‎AM
I would like to thank you for all Cynthia as I understand we are talking about the different issues. Not only in Ramadan weare aways acting honestly in all good conscience. But insulting, using bad words not our style you dont have to work with me or with us but your behaviour unacceptable. Anyway, thank you for your time, hopefully you could find whatever you want. Good luck. Byebye‏
me
‎10‎:‎00‎ ‎AM
Changing the conversation from my behavior to a contract for the needed details that you are responsible for does not change the meaning of Ramadan thanks... I however will post your actions to Dave’s Café because it will save the next person who accepts your contract a lot of trouble.
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Redcar24



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Al Hassa Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:46 pm    Post subject: Contract from Select Academy/Select Employment Reply with quote

THIS AGREEMENT IS made between SELECT ACADEMY (Hereafter referred to as the Employer) and xxxxxxx(Me) (hereafter referred to as the Employee), pursuant to the Employer’s need to contract the services of the teacher as A NATIVE ENGLISH TEACHER.
In consideration of the matters described above and of the mutual benefits and obligations set out in this Agreement, which have been considered sufficient, the Parties to this agreement will act as follows:
I. TERMS AND CONDITIONS
A. Subject to termination as provided for in this Employment Agreement, the Employee will commence employment with the Employer the day after their arrival on the 14/07/2014 (‘the Commencement Date’) at the designated Center, and ending on the 30/09/2014 (the ‘Expiration Date’). This Contract will be in effect for the entire duration of this period.
B. The employee will be the teacher of Select Education and is going to teach in the school determinated by the employer.
C. Determinated school (Hereafter referred to as the Center) is to be advised to the employee.
D. This Employment Agreement is conditional upon the following:
1. All original educational certificates being reviewed by the Employer
2. Satisfactory CRB as required by the Employer
3. Disclosure of all and any criminal convictions in any country
4. The Employee warrants that they will continue at all times during their employment to be compliant with the provisions as included, but not limited to, section I.C. of this Employment Agreement.
5. Failure to comply with the provisions of this Employment Agreement, including but not limited to this section, may result in this Employment Agreement being terminated.
6. The Employee undertakes to comply with all applicable rules, policies and procedures of the Employer as notified to the Employee from time to time. To the extent that these conflict with the terms of this Employment Agreement, the terms and conditions of this Employment Agreement will take precedence.
II. EMPLOYEE – POSITION & DUTIES
A. Conduct and Duties
1. The Employer will employ the Employee as an English Language Teacher who will always be well-prepared to conduct professional, effective English language classes to the standards of the Center, in order to satisfy and meet the needs of all clients.
2. The Employee will inform the Center Manager and/or Head of Department if the student should be re-placed into another level or should be taking another program. The Employee is strictly prohibited from mentioning this to the student.
3. The Employee will use the tools and curriculum available at their Center of employment and will not slander the Employer or curriculum in any way.
4. The Employee will cooperate with the Center Staff by performing all assigned tasks efficiently and expeditiously, including Oral-based Interviews when asked by the Center Staff.
5. Employees are not allowed to switch shifts or classes with another Employee within the Center without the permission of the Manager.
6. The Employee will be subject to the general supervision of and act pursuant to the orders, advice, and direction of the Employer and Center manager, including, without limitation, warnings, both verbal and written, and retraining at the Employer’s request. The Employer will not be required to provide any compensation, monetary or otherwise, to the Employee for retraining.
7. The Employee will act with the appropriate sense of responsibility and professionalism in regards to all matters at the Center of employment.
8. The Employee will be understanding, flexible and professional when a situation arises which is both out of the Employee’s and Manager’s control (i.e. schedule changes).
9. The Employee’s regular work schedule will involve no more than 36 scheduled lesson-hours per week.
10. The Employee will cooperate with the workings of the Center to the best of one’s ability to ensure a smooth running operation.
11. The Employee will strive to create an environment conducive to learning and will have interest, enthusiasm, flexibility, and optimism in motivating all students.
12. The Employee will only speak English in the Center.
13. Private space will be made available to the Employee for the purpose of confidential meetings.
14. The Employee is strictly prohibited from eating while in class.
15. The Employee will conduct him/herself and dress in a manner befitting and conducive to the
professional environment of the Employer.
16. All Employees must maintain a completely professional appearance at all times when working.
B. Work Schedule and Tardiness
1. Work schedule is from Monday to Saturday and 6 lessons per day.
a. Employees will not be tardy for any class or meeting.
b. If an entire class is missed, without reasonable cause, the Employer will deduct 35TL per
missed class. All penalties will be deducted from the Employee’s next month’s salary.
2. The Employee must receive permission from the branch manager if he/she wishes to leave the
Center before his/her designated shift is complete.
C. Absences
1. All unplanned absences will be counted as days not worked and will be deducted from the
Employee’s monthly salary at a rate of 1/30 per day.
2. When a situation arises where absence is inevitable, the Employee is responsible to inform the
Center or the Employer. All substitutions must be approved by the Manager.
3. An Employee who substitutes for another Employee within the same Center will receive one’s own
pay rate and not that of the absent Employee.
4. In the case that an Employee is unable to come to work because of illness or an accident, he/she is
required to contact the Center Manager, as early as possible and must submit a doctor’s note.
D. Evaluation
1. The Employee will be subject to periodic reviews of his/her job performance, including, but not limited
to, in-class assessments and monthly evaluations.
2. With the exception of an Employee’s first month of employment with the Employer, evaluations will be
conducted on a monthly basis.
III. EMPLOYEE COMPENSATION & HOURS
A. The Employee is to work from Monday – Saturday at the designated Center.
B. The Employee is required to teach no more than 36 classes per school week, in addition to training duties.
C. The Employer is entitled to deduct from the Employee’s compensation any applicable deductions and
remittances as required by Turkish law.
D. The Employee will receive 2.750 Turkish lira per month + accommodation.
E. Any monies due to the Employee for one full month of work will be paid on the 30th the related month. If, due
to civic holidays or other circumstances, it is impossible to pay compensation to the Employee on this day,
the Employer shall pay compensation no earlier than one (1) day before or no later than two (2) days after
the 30th of the month. Payments will be paid directly to the Employee.
IV. TEMPORARY ACCOMMODATION
A. The Employer will provide the Employee accommodation. The Employee may need to share this temporary
accommodation with another employee of the same gender.
V. TERMINATION OF THE EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT BY THE EMPLOYEE
A. In case of emergency (death, serious illness, warfare, etc), the Employee may end the Contract without
penalty.
VI. TERMINATION OF THE EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT BY THE EMPLOYER
A. The Employer retains the right to dismiss the Employee resulting in the voidance of this Employment
Agreement if, for any reason during the period of this agreement, the Employee is unable to meet the
conditions as described in this contract. The Employer’s decision will be final in such matters.
B. Acts of misconduct which may call for warning procedures include:
1. Refusing to cooperate with the Manager, staff, and/or other Employees.
2. Negligence.
3. Leaving the Center during shifts without the permission of the Manager.
4. Unsatisfactory work performance.
5. Unauthorized absence and/or poor timekeeping
6. Abusive/offensive/divisive language or behavior.
7. Failure to conduct one’s self in the best interest of the Employer.
8. Not abiding by the required dress standards as laid out in this Employment Agreement.
C. Warning Procedure
1. Oral Warning: The Manager will give the Employee a verbal warning either when work performance is unsatisfactory or when misconduct occurs. In the case of unsatisfactory work performance, the manager will inform the Employee of required standards and will explain how and to what extent the Employee is falling short of those standards along with a time frame in which he/she is expected to achieve these standards.
2. Formal Warning: If there is further misconduct or unsatisfactory work performance, the Manager will warn the Employee verbally and in writing against further misconduct or unsatisfactory work performance. In the case of unsatisfactory work performance, after discussion with the Manager, the Employee may be required to attend retraining and will not be allowed to return to work until retraining has been completed. The Employee will not be compensated monetarily during the retraining period.
3. Final Warning: A written warning, clearly stating that further misconduct or failure to achieve the required standards or work performance may result in termination of this Employment Agreement, along with a meeting with the Center’s Management Team as a final warning.
D. Grounds for “Immediate Termination” which will void this Employment Agreement include:
1. The Employee is unable to discharge the responsibilities as set out in this Employment Agreement.
2. Teaching in contradiction to the Employee’s residency status.
3. Theft, damage to or illegal use of the property of Center or that of another Employee.
4. Possession or use of intoxicants (either alcohol or illegally obtained drugs) while on the premises of the Employer, or repeated absence from work due to indulgence in alcohol. If it comes to the knowledge of the Center that the Employee has used illegally obtained drugs, he/she will be reported to the police immediately.
5. Serious negligence causing unacceptable loss, damage, or injury.
6. Knowingly falsifying any employment application form, employment record, expenses claim or other Select Employment and/or Center statutory record.
7. Falsely reporting illness or the willful abuse of sick leave privileges.
8. Unnecessarily boisterous, abusive, violent or careless behavior in the work area, or distracting or hindering others, including fellow Employees or students.
9. Poor timekeeping or frequent tardiness/absences after being warned.
10. Failure to carry out reasonable orders or tasks without good cause.
11. Racial or sexual harassment.
12. Continued unsatisfactory work performance and/or frequent student complaints.
13. Borrowing money from students.
14. Insulting or slandering Islam, the Prophet Mohammed or Mustafa Kemal Ataturk or the Turkish flag.
E. Termination Responsibilities
1. The Employee will pay any and all outstanding rent, utilities, maintenance fees, and real estate agent’s fees if the Employee or Employer terminates this Employment Agreement before its completion.
2. Notwithstanding the date of termination, the Employee will diligently execute and complete his/her employment responsibilities at the reasonable direction of the Employer. Failure to responsibly execute his/her obligations to the Employer during the notice period will be considered an abandonment of his/her obligations and will be sufficient cause for immediate termination of the Employee without compensation or notice.
3. In spite of anything contained in this Employment Agreement to the contrary, in the event that the Employer will discontinue operating its business at the location where the Employee is employed, then, at the Employer’s sole option, this Employment Agreement will terminate as of the last day of the month in which the Employer ceases operations at such location with the same force and effect as if such last day of the month were originally set as the Expiration Date of this agreement.
4. In spite of anything contained in this Employment Agreement to the contrary, the Employer has the sole option to terminate this Agreement in the event that the Employee will, during the term of this agreement, become unable to perform his/her duties, for a period of thirty (30) consecutive days due to ill health, physical or mental disability or for other causes beyond the Employer’s control.
VII. MODIFICATION OF AGREEMENT
A. Any amendment or modification of this Employment Agreement or additional obligation assumed by either Party in connection with this agreement will only be binding if evidenced in writing signed by each party or an authorized representative of each party.
VIII. CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION
A. In any position the Employee may hold, as a result of the Employee’s employment by the Employer, the Employee may make use of, acquire, or add to information about certain matters which are confidential and the exclusive property of the Employer, including, without limitation, student and employee information, information pertaining to curriculum and programs, and current or potential business interests of the Employer. The Employee will ensure and protect the confidentiality of such Confidential Information as defined by this Agreement. This obligation will continue for a period of five (5) years from the date of the expiration or termination, as the case may be, of this Agreement.
IX. NON-SOLICITATION
A. The Employee agrees that during the term of his/her employment with the Employer, and for a period of three (3) years after the end of that term, the Employee will not in any way, directly or indirectly:
1. induce or attempt to induce any employee or contractor of the Employer to quit employment or retainer with the Employer;
2. otherwise interfere with or disrupt the Employer’s relationship with its employees and contractors;
3. discuss employment opportunities or provide information about competitive employment to any of the Employer’s employees or contractors;
4. solicit, entice, or hire away any employee or contractor of the Employee; or
5. slander the Employer, verbally or in writing.
X. OWNERSHIP OF PATENTS AND/OR COPYRIGHTS
A. The Center will own all past, present, and future patents and/or copyrights for any inventions and any printable and/or publishable material produced by an employee of the Center under the direct supervision of the Center during the term of the agreement.
B. This Agreement will not apply in respect of any intellectual property, process, design, development, creation, research, invention, know-how, trade-names, trade-marks or copyrights for which:
1. No equipment, supplies, facilities or Confidential Information of the Employer was used.
2. Was developed entirely on the Employee’s own time.
3. Does not result from any work performed by the Employee for the Employer.
XI. GOVERNING LAW & VENUES FOR DISPUTE
A. It is the intention of the Parties to this Employment Agreement that this agreement and the performance under this agreement, and all suits and special proceeding under this agreement, be construed in accordance with and governed, to the exclusion of the law of any other forum, by the laws of the Republic of Turkey, without regard to the jurisdiction in which any action or special proceeding may be instituted.
XII. GOOD FAITH
A. The Employer and the Employee will act in good faith toward each other. The Employer will not dismiss the Employee without what is reasonably considered good cause and the Employee will do his/her utmost to satisfactorily fulfill all the responsibilities and meet all the conditions as described in the above agreement.
XIII. FULL KNOWLEDGE
A. The Employee agrees that he/she has read the entirety of this Employment Agreement and taken independent advice upon it.
EMPLOYER: SELECT EDUCATION IN ANKARA, TURKEY
For and on behalf of the Employer:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx( edited for posting)
Pm me for the copy of contract with names
SİGNATURE
Employee: xxxxxxxx(Me)
TEACHER’S NAME&SIGNATURE Date


Last edited by Redcar24 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Redcar24



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Al Hassa Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:47 pm    Post subject: Contract from Select Academy/Select Employment Reply with quote

I can only say that I was embarrased by xxxxxx and her behavior. I am only posting this because I don't want an unfamiliar teacher to get stuck in Turkey during Ramadan with just words and nothing written in the contract....


Shame on you Select Employment/ Education/ Recruitment!

They changed thier company name on the contract twice it reads Select Academy and then on the bottom Select Education....Is that legal?


Last edited by Redcar24 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Redcar24



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Al Hassa Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Select Academy/Education/Employment Reply with quote

Cynthia for God's sake Ramadan is another issue about our contract. We are now tlking about a job. You aretalking about Ramadan. Iwas justsayng that we re notwriting addresses on the contract and if youwont accept let me know so that I could ask my manager to add flight ticket issue or other details without sayng yes ask or no I wont accept you juststart to insult and changed concversation to the Ramadan. Pleasetell me what you want otherwise there is no need to talk same things .‏


‎10‎:‎29‎ ‎AM I told youthat we have never written this, normally weare not writing . We can easily solve it by saying if we wouldnt write you could nt accept ( without being rude orchanging subject to other things) so that I could inform my manager and ask for a solution. But ı am still surprized about your behaviour getting rude suddenly that makes things like that.‏


‎10‎:‎32‎ ‎AM I have lots of teachers that I am working with at leastfor 3 years and I know myself and my company thats why I am notworrying anout your posting conversation. This is not a problem for me but losing a person fr nothing ( just because a sentence on the contract) is problem for me.‏


‎10‎:‎44‎ ‎AM As I understand you will insist on insulting, ths conversaiton is done for me. There is no way for me to agree with thatkind of a manner. I will share alsoourconversationwiht my directors and managers. Thank you.‏


me
‎10‎:‎45‎ ‎AM you should and you are very rude and also your behavior is not acceptable....‏


‎10‎:‎46‎ ‎AM I am also finished speaking to you too! Saying I am finished is less insulting than I am done with you ....Thanks‏


‎11‎:‎59‎ ‎AM I posted this conversation and your contract to Dave's café and I really feel ashamed of your actions and words.‏
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billy orr



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you worked in Turkey before Redcar24?
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wander&teach



Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

billy orr wrote:
Have you worked in Turkey before Redcar24?


If you haven't your experience is not very surprising. More the norm than the exception, even at so called legitimate employers.
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Redcar24



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Al Hassa Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:36 am    Post subject: I think everyone has worked in Turkey at one point or anothe Reply with quote

It still does not constitute acceptable behavior if it did 199 people would have not read this thread. Right? Rolling Eyes
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 153
Location: SumUt

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having 200 views on your thread might mean 200 people have each looked once, or it might mean 20 people have looked ten times each. Anyway, if someone posted a thread called "Laundry list" and then proceeded to list the items in need of laundering, it would no doubt get 200 views in a short matter of time... that says nothing about showing the validity of your complaint.

In my very brief experience of working in Turkey (so far) it does seem pretty much par for the course that things are sometimes worded vaguely, things are offered on verbal agreement and not stated specifically in the contract, one will be told "yeah we will take care of it / get your apartment / arrange your transportation" etc, in a general sort of way. It doesn't necessarily mean that they won't get it done, just because they are not very precise about stating HOW it will get done, though I understand this can be frustrating and lead to FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
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wander&teach



Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In general as in many other cultures, Turks are reluctant to say no as it might be seen as rude or unhelpful. For example, if you ask for directions you will most likely get them even if the person has no idea where your destination is. Verbal agreements and contracts are generally seen in the same light even at higher education institutions and in government policy. They are seen as fluid and prone to change according to the circumstances and a persons needs. Once you understand this it is easier to function in Turkish society but if you can't accept it you will be so much better off going somewhere else. Bluntly pointing out that someone has not lived up to their
written contract or to their word will only result in that person being insulted. It is best to be be extremely diplomatic when in these situations and have Superman-like patience. Thus one of the reasons for the revolving door in foreign teacher turnover.
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CVN-76



Joined: 28 Mar 2014
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best policy is to avoid Turkey altogether. Short. Simple. Easy.
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Kim Macintosh



Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contracts here really are aspirational, at best. Better thought of not as anything legal, but rather than an agreement that can be referred to. Even then there is the bad English you have to read and the misunderstood English they're trying to understand.

Finding and engaging a competent lawyer is going to run you time and $, assuming you have the ability to do so. At that point you'd run into their lawyer, but more importantly, the laxness in enforcement from place to place and how your employer's political clout is bound to be better than whatever your lawyer is going to be inclined to expend on your behalf.

We are talking about a relationship, and I don't take my contract too seriously. Better to maintain good and responsible, if not an excellent personal relationship with those in power. Give proper notice and don't leave them in the lurch if you intend to get sick for a long weekend or are preparing to quite. Hope that, because they appreciate your professionalism and like you personally, that when they run into hard times, they'll give you a little notice and pay what you're owed as you go out the door.

This is a culture that functions more by relationships rather than law. Fortunately, the culture is functional, the people are friendly, and a more personal approach tends to work well.
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 153
Location: SumUt

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kim Macintosh wrote:
Contracts here really are aspirational, at best. Better thought of not as anything legal, but rather than an agreement that can be referred to. Even then there is the bad English you have to read and the misunderstood English they're trying to understand.

Finding and engaging a competent lawyer is going to run you time and $, assuming you have the ability to do so. At that point you'd run into their lawyer, but more importantly, the laxness in enforcement from place to place and how your employer's political clout is bound to be better than whatever your lawyer is going to be inclined to expend on your behalf.

We are talking about a relationship, and I don't take my contract too seriously. Better to maintain good and responsible, if not an excellent personal relationship with those in power. Give proper notice and don't leave them in the lurch if you intend to get sick for a long weekend or are preparing to quite. Hope that, because they appreciate your professionalism and like you personally, that when they run into hard times, they'll give you a little notice and pay what you're owed as you go out the door.

This is a culture that functions more by relationships rather than law. Fortunately, the culture is functional, the people are friendly, and a more personal approach tends to work well.


I think this is an insightful post with some really good advice. Also, the OP's reaction with the issue of Muslim / Ramadan / fasting, I think, was particularly unhelpful. Browbeating the agent about the meaning of Ramadan was probably not a good move, and really should not have been part of the discussion, in my opinion.

So you are an observant Muslim and you are fasting, that's great (I am also Muslim and also fasting ... and working). There is a very good likelihood that the agent / rep is Muslim too, in fact s/he replied that was the case and basically "everybody is fasting, so what?", which I think was the correct point to make. If you travel during the fasting month, you are entitled to suspend your fast for as many days as your travel takes, and make them up later, those are the rules (although I think those rules were stated at a time when "travel" was a bit more arduous than it is today ... anyway, those are still "the rules"). Why beat him /her over the head about it, and what has that really got to do with the issues about your contract? Not much really, and I think you were out of line to use that as an arguing point. You have to have some understanding of, if not necessarily some appreciation for, the culture of the place you're going to work, and pulling the "I'm Muslim and you don't understand or follow the meaning or values of Islam like I do" was not a good move, although it seems you had given up on taking the job at that point anyway and just wanted to get a few kicks in.

Hey, I would want the specific name and place of employment, as well as the place of accommodation provided, stated on my contract too, preferably, but I don't think you approached the problem in a way that was likely to enable a real solution.

(Also, "we" are specifically instructed to refrain from extreme emotions, particularly "negative" ones, like anger, during the holy month of Ramadan. I know at times that is "easier said than done", but still ... )


Last edited by mysterytrain on Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CVN-76



Joined: 28 Mar 2014
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turkey has deteriorated since I began going there in the early 2000s. My friends there have told me the country is screwed up now, and I know they're correct. Salaries are low as well. The place feels like a social volcano these days, ready to blow with strife, thanks to the enormous gap between the have-yachts and the have-nots. Cars are outrageous in price, and gas is nearly 9 USD a gallon. Not good. What is more, salaries are too low for what you will have to endure as a teacher. You'll commonly see conditions that you will have seen in the Middle East, if you have ever taught there. Only in Turkey you'll be paid maybe 30-40% the salaries paid in Oman to put up with the same conditions as Oman. And the turnover is atrocious in Oman because of those conditions, which should tell you something.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12382
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you think it would be like Switzerland ? This part of the world has more in common with the Middle East than with Europe !
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Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 750
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Scot47 points out, only 3% of Turkey (Thrace) is actually in Europe. The remainder is very much Asia.
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