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Select Empolyment /TEFL R- In Turkey ( Improper Contracts)
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Redcar24



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Al Hassa Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:41 am    Post subject: Select Academy/Education/Employment Reply with quote

My point of this ordeal was to stop people from being taken by this company and I am a Muslim and that means something when someone says I don't care what you post and I don't care about you just show up...This particular company actually has many complaints and I felt it was the right thing to do in order to get the attention of teachers that are time and time again taken by this company...

I had conversations with this particular person for three months and at the time I was in the US and was expected to use my air ticket to come to Istanbul and to wait for a ticket to Ankara. Then after that I was not given the address to where I was living and not even the company name. This kind of company is a mix for disaster and they have done it over and over to good people. I was lucky to get the proof...
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CVN-76



Joined: 28 Mar 2014
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedCar, thanks for the heads-up info. Keep on keeping on, keeping people informed of the exploitation and authoritarian nonsense out there. Teachers have to stick together and form a united front to end it for good.
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billy orr



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redcar, I would be interested to know what reply you were hoping for when you introduced Ramadan into your exchanges.
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Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 750
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redcar, according to your opening post, it clearly states that on July 1st, 1.03pm, you were told the address of your accommodation -

Emek, 72 street, Apt 45, House 5.

It clearly stated it is only 15 minutes to the office in Kizilay. That is correct.

What more did you expect ? As for Ramadan, as a traveller, you are excused fasting.
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 153
Location: SumUt

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

billy orr wrote:
Redcar, I would be interested to know what reply you were hoping for when you introduced Ramadan into your exchanges.


I can't speak for redcar of course, but I surmise s/he was hoping for some form of "special consideration" from another Muslim, based on the fact of self-identification as ... a Muslim. Or maybe "an improvement in customer service" would be a better way to put it.

By the way, Billy, are you still walking around with crab apples in your cheeks? Or have you switched back to horse chestnuts.
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billy orr



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I surmised the same, but I would like to know a bit more about assumptions and expectations behind the exchanges. Anyone coming to Turkey expecting employers to excuse teachers from teaching or travel like this is likely to be met with incredulity in most cases.

But Captain Yossarian, surely you know when I couldn't get crab apples, I walked around with horse chestnuts.

Catch 22 could be useful reading though to get ready for some employers here.
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 153
Location: SumUt

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Orr, yeah, hopefully redcar will come back and answer for him / herself, but since I was giving my own sort of "analysis" (and since, amazingly, I don't seem to have anything better to do at the moment, even during the height of Eid!), I'll just elaborate a bit. Based on my reading of the exchanges, I don't think s/he was expecting to be "excused" from traveling or teaching during Ramadan. Instead, it seems like it was first brought up out of the already evident frustration s/he was feeling about the "situation" in general and the lack of specific information (in writing, on the contract) which s/he found to be lacking.

But what does Ramadan have to do with any of that? It''s a good question, I think, and I wonder too. My own feeling, as intimated before, is that redcar somehow thought that identifying him / herself as a Muslim would or should result in a "service upgrade", like "Oh really? Well since you are Muslim, let me redouble my efforts to accommodate you" (pun unintended). Or just "I'm already pissed off and frustrated, feeling like I am being treated badly, etc, so I'm going to 'drop the bomb' that I am a MUSLIM, dammit, and make the agent feel bad and ashamed for treating a fellow Muslim this way". Either way, this approach doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And I don't mean to put redcar down unfairly, but s/he has the opportunity to correct or explain as /if desired.

I agree that announcing oneself as being Muslim, especially once already involved in a somewhat negative interaction, would not be likely to make any difference, or at least to make a positive one. Again, I think the normal attitude would be (and was) "so, you're Muslim? And you're fasting? Good for you... what's that got to do with this again? All Muslims are fasting, and working too" (as the agent actually said).

As pointed out already, one who is "on a journey" is excused from fasting for those days and the days can be "made up" later, presumably redcar knew this.. I think the complaint was that s/he was or was planning to be traveling for the job based on whatever had been told to him / her about the job and contract, and at this point felt that the contract / job / employer was not meeting expectations.

I have only worked in Turkey for two weeks, in an Intensive English Winter Camp in Urfa in late January / early February 2011 (beginning of the Arab Spring). Based on the contract for that job and the dealings with the company / recruiter, I got the basic impression of "how things are' as in vaguely / generally worded contracts and scarce details, general assurances without specific guarantees, etc. It seems from that experience and from what I've been reading in this forum that a lot of that is down to the culture, and just has to be accepted (on some level... to some extent) and "dealt with", or else "don't work in Turkey, stupid" if one can't.

I am stuck in sultry Sumatra for the past three years (and one more to go), but I am interested in working in Turkey again for at least a one year (ten month?) contract, to see how she goes. I have an Indonesian wife and yes, we are Muslim. I'd like to experience for myself and expose my wife to Turkish culture (hopefully some positive bits) and see if we feel comfortable there and would want to stay there a few years or more. Seems the only way to "really know" is to go. I dug it during the short time I was there, and think I could be happy enough in any decent-sized (and otherwise habitable / affordable) city there, but again, my experience so far is VERY limited. (I know generally speaking about the social / political situation, the fluctuating / plummeting lira, etc.)

"I'm Yossarian ... I'm the bombardier .. I'm okay"

(I only read it once, when I was about 16 years old... that's been a loooooooong time)
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Redcar24



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Al Hassa Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:32 am    Post subject: mystery train Reply with quote

One burned
twice burned
three times it is more than a mistake here

Good Luck with your ranting .......
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 153
Location: SumUt

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: mystery train Reply with quote

Redcar24 wrote:
One burned
twice burned
three times it is more than a mistake here

Good Luck with your ranting .......


Whose ranting? The only ranting I've seen on this thread has been entirely by you.

I was actually hoping for a further, rational explanation for some of the things you've said here, and it doesn't seem to be forthcoming. There are a few of us who have expressed that we really don't understand why you brought up the "issue" of Ramadan and being Muslim with the agent / recruiter / school's rep in the first place. I offered some "guesses" about that, not "ranting".

You say things like,

[QUOTE=Redcar24] My point of this ordeal was to stop people from being taken by this company and I am a Muslim and that means something when someone says I don't care what you post and I don't care about you just show up..[/QUOTE]


So, what does this mean? Being a Muslim means something, I absolutely agree. I am a Muslim too. Being Muslim means many things. But in the context of your posts on this thread, what does it mean, exactly? Be clear, pull out some ayat or hadith if you need to. Then I won't need to "interpret" your vague statements.

Do you mean that Muslims should be responsible, both for themselves and to each other? That is true, but you haven't clearly shown how the person you were dealing with failed in his / her responsibility to you, either as a party to a professional relationship or "as one Muslim to another".

You complained repeatedly about not being given the address and location of the accommodation, but as has been pointed out, it was clearly and specifically given to you. It wasn't written in the contract, and the school's rep told you plainly and repeatedly that it wouldn't be, as they "just don't do that".

It seems to me that there was an apartment or accommodation arranged for you, you were told it's location and physical address, you had been told about the school or place where you would be teaching etc, and they were waiting for you to get on a plane (using a ticket to Turkey you had already purchased, apparently), then you needed to change a local ticket within Turkey (from Istanbul) and you wanted them to pay for the change fee. The rep said that s/he can't guarantee or promise this, but "will try". After that, it all went south pretty quickly, and I'm not sure why.

Why it all got so personal and officious between you and the rep (mostly on your side) is a mystery to some of us, I think. It is not clear at all to me, from your "transcript", how the rep was behaving in a particularly unprofessional way, much less an "un-Muslim" one, but somehow you took it to a personal level and brought religion into a discussion about a contract and job.

I don't mean to be unfair to you, and I don't think I am, but I'm on the side of the rep on this one. "Muslim" had nothing to do with it.
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Redcar24



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Al Hassa Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:01 pm    Post subject: Mystery train Reply with quote

Again I am requesting you to stop ranting .........

It's clear either you are affiliated with Select or you work with them. I made my point and now they are angry so? What's the point here?

Stop ranting I have the right to post things that happened and are true I have the proof so again stop ranting...

Thanks Arrow Very Happy
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PC Parrot



Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 394
Location: Moral Police Station

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's only one person ranting here ... and it's not mystery train
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Redcar24



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Al Hassa Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: Stop Trolling Reply with quote

This post was meant for the Expats working in Turkey

Stop Trolling .................... Rolling Eyes
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PC Parrot



Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 394
Location: Moral Police Station

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You prove me right with your every post ...
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 153
Location: SumUt

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Mystery train Reply with quote

Redcar24 wrote:
Again I am requesting you to stop ranting .........

It's clear either you are affiliated with Select or you work with them. I made my point and now they are angry so? What's the point here?

Stop ranting I have the right to post things that happened and are true I have the proof so again stop ranting..


Yep... you got me... I'm an undercover agent for SELECT... "Secret Evil Lazy Egregious Cow Tippers"... my cover is duly blown.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way... a few words of wisdom from a very Good Book:


"When you are greeted with a greeting, return the greeting or improve upon it. Allah takes account of everything." Surat an-Nisa': 86


"Speak good words to people..." Surat al-Baqara: 83


".. lower your voice. The most hateful voice is the donkey's bray." Surah Luqman: 19
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Redcar24



Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Al Hassa Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Mystery train Reply with quote

What's the point?

you posted all so many times ........................


(Your Quote)
Yep... you got me... I'm an undercover agent for SELECT... "Secret Evil Lazy Egregious Cow Tippers"... my cover is duly blown
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