Job Discussion Forums

[Juice]

If some school or agent told you to come work in China with a L, F, or M visa and promised to "convert" it to a Z visa once you arrived, please post their names, email, and phone number here so more teachers do not get deported as I was over a month ago.

http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2014/02/12/how-do-china-foreign-teachers-deal-pinochio-problem

Michelle Wang aka Zhang Li Mei aka Michelle Zhang of Beijing is the con artist recruiter that got me to swallow her BS and come to China on an L visa and I ended up in this group here:

http://eslwatch.info/china-2/about-the-law-china/12117-1-600-expat-china-foreign-teachers-get-the-boot-in-2014-so-far-recruiters-schools-or-teachers-to-blame.html

[Alien abductee]

Are you suggesting people go to the beijinger to report dishonest schools and agents? If so, why post the info on an obscure, non-ESL related site where it might never see light of day when they can post it right here on eslcafe?

Better yet, people can just exercise common sense and refuse any job offer that doesn't offer a work visa up front. There's no shortage of legitimate job offers in this country (for those who qualify at least).

[Riff Raff]

It's an excellent idea.

Due to the population, culture of dishonesty in business, and sheer dislike of foreigners, that list could easily have one million names and still not have them all.

[Vaxa]

David Valley, Canadian Toronto recruiter.


Wants people to travel to Beijing on the M visa so he can get you past customs in which he says will then be converted to the Z visa.

"Valley Organisation"

Is the recruiting agency.

[Bud Powell]

Rerun.

[Juice]

Alien abductee wrote:

Are you suggesting people go to the beijinger to report dishonest schools and agents? If so, why post the info on an obscure, non-ESL related site where it might never see light of day when they can post it right here on eslcafe? Better yet, people can just exercise common sense and refuse any job offer that doesn't offer a work visa up front. There's no shortage of legitimate job offers in this country (for those who qualify at least).

No, I am suggesting we use this link right here and ask Dave to make it a sticky. I just used the Beijinger link as a reference that this is a common problem all over China.

I went through my old emails going back one year and found 78 schools/agents telling me it is "just fine", "no problem", and "standard procedure" for new teachers to come to China to work on a L, or F, visa and one actually offered to enroll me in some Chinese classes to get me an X visa so I could work for them. 18 schools/recruiters contacted me more than once using different names/emails. Here are the liars...

Best Learning (Ann Marie)

BiLingo China aka China BiLingo aka UFEIC (Monica Chang aka Monica)

Goldentran (Peter)

EZ English (Jane Wei)

China ESL (David Valley, Derrick Yazwa, Ms. Weintraub, Michelle Zhang, Rebecca Tang)

ABC English (Henry)

Angelina's ESL Cafe (Maggie)

Ocean University (Jeff Gao aka Jeff Sya)

Serious Teachers (Robert)

Key Logic (Ying Li)

Meten English (HRD Chen)

Fast Track English (Jerry Zhang)

Web International (Susan Xue and "Kevin")

POP English (Li Peng)

Foreign HR (Eric Liu)

Teach Away (Fei aka Fang Wei aka Fang Fei)

Beiwai English Tutors (Helen)

Morgan English (Ben)

Next Step China (Amy)

Footprints (Lea Li aka Lilly)

EslTeacherCafe.com (they used five different names with me)

I-To-I & OnLineTefl.com (same company - use many first names)

Happy English (Ying, Bo, or Brian)

Jeff Gao aka Jeff Sya (Shandong & Chonqing)

All the blind ads that have reply emails that are disposable free emails are obvious red flags as well like these here...

@163.com
@126.com
@263.com
@hotmail.com
@sina.com
@gmail.com
@yahoo.com
@yeah.net
@qq.com
@tencent.com

Obviously, if they claim to represent a school or university (as most do) they should prove it by using an email from xdf.com or xdf.cn (New Oriental for example, or pku.edu.cn (Peking University)

The more I think about it, I think it may just be easier to avoid agents altogether, because to find just one honest and good recruiter, you will have to spend days playing games, and jumping through hoops with 100 pretenders. Not worth the time or effort, especially if you can just send your resume directly to the FAOs and principals.

http://www.cleverchinacheaters.com/2012/09/10-reasons-why-you-should-never-use.html

FYI... YOU DO NOT NEED A TEFL CERTIFICATE TO TEACH IN CHINA - ANOTHER BIG LIE TOLD IN ORDER TO SELL YOU AN EXPENSIVE TEFL COURSE!

[likwid_777]

I'm not going to name and shame my school, for after a few years, I'm not so dirty about it any more. I guess that, if I have have had the proper qualifications, they would have been able to get me the Z Visa.

[Bud Powell]

There is no point in starting a list when one check with any Chinese consulate will reveal that a Z visa is a working visa.

There's also enough discussion on FT forums about this. Anyone who STILL doesn't know the risks involved deserves what he gets. How can anyone verify the truth of such a list?

This BS has got to stop. We suffered through the I Hate All Recruiters phase, then the Join the CFTU phase, and now this.

[Banner41]

You start the same stuff over and over. Get caught and pop up with a new name every few weeks.

Step 1. Act like an active caring member

Step 2. Ask/give advice

Step 3. (After you think you have gained sheep status) Spam links and feign outrage on the site......Wolf revealed!

Step 4. Goto Step 1

It's not clever and not appreciated.

Another tactic is for them to pull up old threads and throw support for the original poster....which in fact was them in the first place. Don't believe me? Search the threads......It's transparent...#unoriginal

[Alien abductee]

[Juice]

I think if you also were deported based on the lies of some slick recruiter who does not even use her own name, you also might make these snakes a pet peeve. It is wrong to assume (as Bud implies) that this web site is so well read by everyone who stumbles upon it that they should know everything contained in some 380,000 posts going back years. Most visitor don't even go past the first page and that is where the most important stuff should be including a big ass warning to avoid all the agents who downplay the Z visa and persuade people to break the law.

Bud, you keep mentioning the web site of embassies. How many newbie teachers do you really think are going to be checking embassy web sites about teaching in China? At best maybe 5%. Lets be real here, even bright people get taken in by these recruiters because we have no reason to disbelieve them until after we have a problem in China and learn they will say anything to get a signature on a contract.

Most everyone who posted here in this thread is a veteran with hundreds of posts. My OP is directed to new users who have just found this web site or who have less than a dozen posts - THEY ARE THE MOST VULNERABLE - not you guys.

Stop assuming everyone checks with their embassy and they all know China visa laws. Most believe what the agents and recruiters tell them.

[Shroob]

[Banner41]

A new tactic! Using low post count as a way to endear yourself to newer members.

I will agree that not everyone can remember 380,000 posts but we do remember your accounts in all of its incarnates. So, people will continue to warn new members of your tactics so that it will always be fresh in their minds!

Again, just because you fell for a scam doesn't mean other people are not smarter than you. Seriously 78 different school contacts in one year? You are the LAST person who should be giving advice.....your obviously not very good at this whole working abroad thing.

Good luck at home. I hope you find better success there.

Cheers!

[Juice]

[The_Kong]