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current job situation in PL?
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1633
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:59 am    Post subject: the longer.... Reply with quote

The longer people put up with being in the working poor, the longer this 'culture' will go on. Nominal hourly rates have dropped in Poznan yet alone real salaries. All the time doughnuts are willing to work for 3,000Zl/month, the situation will never change.

What goes on here is simply not acceptable.

While I don't doubt that 'your school' is OK, the salary certainly isn't. 3,000PLN is like living on the dole for an expat.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1633
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:35 am    Post subject: Gumtree Reply with quote

And yes, sharing a flat with a complete stranger from Gumtree. Did it once and never again. Nice locaation, Plac Wolnosci, but the Pole turned out to be a osiedle hiphop loving wannabe gangster. Never again. It's hard enough arriving in a new place but taking a punt on a flatmate is out of the question. Graduates should not have to sign up for that crap.
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Louisdf



Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Gumtree Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
And yes, sharing a flat with a complete stranger from Gumtree. Did it once and never again. Nice locaation, Plac Wolnosci, but the Pole turned out to be a osiedle hiphop loving wannabe gangster. Never again. It's hard enough arriving in a new place but taking a punt on a flatmate is out of the question. Graduates should not have to sign up for that crap.

How many 20 something
s living in New York/London/Paris have their own place? Hardly any as renting a 1 bedroom flat costs more than half the average monthly salary. So why would you expect it to be different in Poland?
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1633
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:54 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

When I was 23 I moved to London to work in a bank. I rented a house and a flat with GOOD friends. You are comparing apples with oranges.

I've been in this game long enough to know first hand that sharing with strangers is a recipe for disaster.

Get a partner and it just gets plain weird.

Want to be treated like a student then be prepared to live like one or is it vice versa?
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
When I was 23 I moved to London to work in a bank. I rented a house and a flat with GOOD friends. You are comparing apples with oranges.


It's not that common, especially if you come from quite far away. Renting a flat with friends in a new city isn't always going to be possible, is it?

Quote:
Get a partner and it just gets plain weird.


Agreed, but how many 23 year olds are in stable relationships?

Quote:
The longer people put up with being in the working poor, the longer this 'culture' will go on. Nominal hourly rates have dropped in Poznan yet alone real salaries. All the time doughnuts are willing to work for 3,000Zl/month, the situation will never change.


Do remember that the 3000zl/month figure includes quite significant pension contributions - unlike the UK, Poland has an individual pension system. There's also 320zl for health insurance in there, as well as other insurance payments for sickness and disability insurance.

If this was 3000zl on umowa o dzieƂo, you'd have a point - but it's on umowa o prace, with all the benefits that it confers. For instance - let's say we find a woman, and she gets pregnant. She can expect 80% of her salary for a year - which is pretty generous compared to the UK, for instance. She can also expect the job to be adjusted for her needs, such as working only mornings.

I forgot about some other benefits - there's free childcare/nursery available for children, for instance. That alone could be 800-1000zl a month per child...
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1633
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:50 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

So get up the duff and get 2400 PLN! Even poorer. Try paying for a kid on a TEFL salary. I have never met a female, expat teacher who has a kid here. Not 1 in 20 years.

And everyone knows ZUS is a ticking time bomb re the pensions.

Seriously Delph-that's a hard sell.

Next you'll be touting free coffee and net in the office and Polish lessons.

Sound familiar?

Actually your salary is on a par with IH ie 2400 plus digs. Dire.

Poland is not cheap. 600 sovs a month in Europe in 2015 is slavery. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:30 pm    Post subject: Fine for newbies Reply with quote

Delph, just to be clear, you'd hire someone with a bachelor's degree + a teaching cert. and no experience for this job?

If that's the case, I think the offer is a good gig for someone just starting out. When I started teaching in '06 in Gdansk, I was on a similar salary, but had virtually none of the benefits, aside from health insurance.

Don't forget that the job is for basically 15 teaching hours a week (I assume there aren't a lot of other responsibilities, aside from planning lessons?) so you'd be able to add to that 3,000zl salary with privates.

Where in Europe are you going to find a job which pays a good salary for an entry level job?
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1633
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:51 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

It's 10 quid a day after rent. This is Europe. It's the EU. Are you out of your tiny mind?

Many things here cost the same as the UK.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Fine for newbies Reply with quote

Master Shake wrote:
Delph, just to be clear, you'd hire someone with a bachelor's degree + a teaching cert. and no experience for this job?

If that's the case, I think the offer is a good gig for someone just starting out. When I started teaching in '06 in Gdansk, I was on a similar salary, but had virtually none of the benefits, aside from health insurance.


Yep, it's pretty much aimed at a newbie teacher. The whole deal includes help with lesson planning (in fact, as much help as they want) and encouragement to become specialised in a certain area. Even things like conferences will be paid for if it's relevant.

Quote:
Don't forget that the job is for basically 15 teaching hours a week (I assume there aren't a lot of other responsibilities, aside from planning lessons?) so you'd be able to add to that 3,000zl salary with privates.

Where in Europe are you going to find a job which pays a good salary for an entry level job?


Other responsibilities are pretty much minimal, and anyone that's seen a typical YL teacher's book knows that everything is laid out for you. Probably the hardest part would be preparing classes for Cambridge YL exams, but again - there's the full support of our Cambridge teacher. Even those classes aren't particularly difficult to plan for, and there would probably only be 4 hours a week of them.

I'm actually trying to think what responsibilities they would have - and I can only think of turning up occasionally in the evening to some events, but very very occasionally (ie, once every 3 months or so).
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1633
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:47 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

I think 3000 plus digs would be acceptable. People might go for that. People need some sort of social life and you aren't going to have one on 50Zl/day after rent and bills. If MasterEnglish (hardly an ELT giant) can offer digs, I'm sure you can.
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
I think 3000 plus digs would be acceptable. People might go for that. People need some sort of social life and you aren't going to have one on 50Zl/day after rent and bills. If MasterEnglish (hardly an ELT giant) can offer digs, I'm sure you can.
I agree that 3000+ accom. would make the gig a no-brainer for a new teacher who was willing go down the YL path.

But don't forget, it's 3000/mo 12 months of the year - a much better gig than most language schools (who offer 9 month contracts).

3000 - 800 (shared accom. including all bills) = 2200zl/mo. That's 73zl a day to play with. Quite doable, IMO. Not living it up; but making ends meet.

Obviously, dragonpiwo couldn't live on that, but you're the bright spark who spends 200zl on a 'no frills' meal. For me, a no frills lunch costs less than 20zl and probably closer to 10.

Anyway, the sticking point for me with any YL teaching job would be the discipline policy with the kids and how it's adhered to. I've taught enough YLs to know that it only takes 1 really bad apple to ruin the whole barrel. Too many schools bend over backwards trying to accommodate monster parents with out-of-control, spoiled-rotten brats.

You get a group of well-behaved, eager to learn kids and being a YL teacher is the best job in the world; you get nasty little sh*ts, it's hell.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoke to the boss today, and it's not impossible for accommodation to be paid for if the person is qualified to work in public schools. As for the discipline policy - we've got a nice range of punishments available, including spending whole periods doing chores in the school. If they refuse to do it, then it's a phone call to the parents to pick up their kid for the day. Probably the huge difference between this and a language school YL job is that language schools are always worrying as to whether the kid will actually come the next month - here, we don't have such worries. It's not perfect, but in general, there are ways to deal with bad kids.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1633
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:03 am    Post subject: Yep Reply with quote

Yeah that's the right offer Delph. 3000+digs and the teacher will have a happy and soft landing here. There's a huge difference between living on 50 and 100 PLN/day. More likely to stick around too.

That's more like it and it's nice to see.
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Bratan



Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been offered a job in Krakow. I'd be on 3000PLN a month and the school has been helpful enough to provide me with a list of flats to look at before I get there. They're all studio set ups and I'd be looking at paying around 1600PLN a month, including utilities.

Does that seem reasonable to you guys? It'd leave me with 350PLN a week to live on and play around with, which is significantly lower than I've earned before, even in less-developed countries with a lower cost of living.

I'm sure I could dig up an answer elsewhere on the forum, but it's hard to sift through everything and I'm looking for an up-to-date answer.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1633
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:18 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

I think 50 PLN a day will be a real struggle to exist on. You can forget travelling, eating in restaurants and even cinema. It's just under a tenner a day. If you smoke, that's 15 a day gone there. A sandwich from jabka ( a corner shop) is 3PLN and a tin foil tray portion of spag bol is 10. Therefore, 2 rolls and a tin tray of slop plus a pack of smokes will set you back 31 Zl. A tram ticket to work and back is about 6 Zl. Thats, 13 Zl left a day to play around with ie half a cinema ticket or 2 beers. You can buy jeans in Tesco for about 70 Zl and C and A for between 100 and 130. Levis are 250-300. As long as you just want to eat very basically and travel by tram twice a day you could theoretically survive but life will be shyte. Forget dating too as Polish girls expect you to pay. A bottle of wine in a restaurant starts at around 50 and the average is nearer 100. Of course you can drink at home in your studio alone. Me and the missus just spent 3 days in Sopot and excluding the petrol it cost 2500 Zl. We stayed in a mid-range hotel, nothing fancy. I don't know where you are from but if you're from the UK, imagine that clothes, restaurants, electronic goods and hotels cost the same as the UK. Vegetables and meat cost about the same as they do in Iceland. Beer out is like Wetherspoons. Imagine having ten quid a day to spend and living like that in the UK. Transport in Poland is cheaper but where are you going to stay? Even private rooms cost about 100 Zl a night. I've stayed in many. If you had 700 a week, it would be livable but still you'd have to be frugal.
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