Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Severance pay

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Turkey
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
delal



Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 251
Location: N Turkey

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Severance pay Reply with quote


Does anyone know the latest about severance pay?
The place I was working at work changed from being owned by one company to another. Our contracts were cancelled as they had to apply for new work permits for us to work for the new company (owned by the same people, just a different arrangement)
Should they have paid us severance pay when they cancelled our old contracts? We haven't signed anything about leaving the old company BTW
I read online that if a new company takes over, then the new company has to pay any severance pay accumulated, but how would that work if we haven't been legally employed by the school for a couple of months anyway? The school told us that there's no problem and that severance pay will be covered by the new company but we have nothing in writing
We are very confused and worried that we will have been taken advantage of
Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
svenhassel



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it a language school? I would be very surprised if you would be given severance pay anyway (universities and formal schools usually pay up). An all too common scenario in language schools is to be fired and not even get wages earned without a fight, depending on circumstances.

If you still have a job, be happy with that.

If you get fired and don't get severance go and see a lawyer. A lot of hassle...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Agamemnon



Joined: 24 Jun 2014
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ıf you have worked at any place for more than a year you are entitled to claim severance. ın Turkey they call it tasminat or compensation, paid when your contract is not renewed without good cause or reason.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
delal



Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 251
Location: N Turkey

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

Thank you for the replies
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wander&teach



Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe a real world reality check is in order here.

1) Contracts in Turkey are not held in the same esteem as in the West or Europe. They are often considered as mere "guidelines" of an agreement and subject to change, cancellation or revision by either party at will. Of course the party with the most leverage is the winner.

2) Verbal contracts are superior to written contracts in Turkey and are considered more "sacred", although in a dispute they generally become a "he said, she said battle". Of course the party with the most leverage is the winner.

3) Hiring an attorney or lawyer in Turkey for minor disputes, such as individual employment matters is rarely a productive route unless there are a large pool of plaintiffs. Even than, you will be hard pressed to find a lawyer who is willing to pursue such matters.

4) In the event that you do succeed in retaining an attorney, the road ahead will be long and your chances of winning are minute, especially when employers begin changing ownership numerous times which generally consists of a simple document or administrative change for them. This is a common legal tactic practiced by unscrupulous ESL employers around the world in order to avoid enforcement of any legal matters that may be filed against them.

5) As in any other country around the world, winning a case and collecting any restitution awarded to you in a court of law or arbitration council are two completely different matters and can take years. If the defendant refuses to pay or claims lack of funds, the entire process may have to be repeated. That is, suing the defended for the awarded restitution. See a pattern here?

6) Unscrupulous ESL employers around the world know that you are only in their country for a limited amount of time even if it is for several years (a mere blink of the eye in the judicial process). They know the legal system. They know the attorneys. They know the courts. They know the loopholes. You don't.

7) If you are being taken advantage of, I suggest that the best course of action is to play hardball if you are in the position to do so. Refuse to work until you are paid or find other employment. Of course most ESL teachers don't have this luxury with rent being due, visa issues to deal with, food needed on the table, etc. Again, the bad employers know this and will play you like a fiddle.

Cool There are many tactics that you can use to avoid a bad employment situation, but these must be implemented in the beginning and come with experience. Even if you do take all precautions the cards are stacked against you. Best to eat crow, chalk it up as a learning experience and move on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
billy orr



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W&T, you are very very wrong on this one, and your post, which sounds authoritative, is actually extremely irresponsible because it may discourage people from pursuing their rights.

I can assure you that employment law is strong in Turkey and is being applied.

There must be a legal contract for someone to work.
Social Security must be paid. The fines are very high and applied.
If employment is terminated, once someone has been employed for more than 12 months, compensation must be paid, at the rate of one month gross salary for every year worked.
A lawyer is not necessary to prompt an enquiry into an employer, a form that can be got from a noter is enough.

Of course, employers have the right to defend themselves against incorrect claims, and other influences may operate in some cases, as in most countries, but the fact is that employers are constantly being prosecuted and fined large sums for breaches of the rules, and severance pay most certainly is being paid.

Severance pay is even payable when the employee resigns within a year of getting married if the employee is female.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wander&teach



Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Orr, I read most of your postings starting in 2009 to present and you appear to be a fairly level headed individual, although very pro Turkish which leads me to believe you are invested in Turkey in some manner, but I must strongly disagree with you on this one.

Firstly, I did not intend to sound authoritative, but I do have a strong knowledge of law and judicial process's and speak bluntly about them as the theory of rules and the law is very different than how real life scenarios tend to play out in most cases.

As for a very general example to explain my theory, there are traffic laws on the books with specific penalties for each specified infraction. These laws appear pretty cut and dry on paper, run a red light, pay $XXX. BUT in reality there are numerous variables, in addition to which the penalties are at the discretion of a human, be it a Police Officer or a Judge. Have you ever driven in Turkey? There are no rules. Cars frequently mount the sidewalk to go around traffic and than honk their horn to warn the pedestrians to get out of the way. Pedestrians are at the mercy of traffic. I can assure you Mr. Orr this is no exaggeration.

Are we even talking about the same country? The fact is Turkey ranks third in the world for occupational death rates despite the so called employment protection laws. Have you read about the most recent and perennial mining accidents? If you look at the books there are hundreds of laws in effect to protect these workers. Heck, they are even unionized, yet the are dying ever year by the scores because of the lack of very basic safety precautions like carbon monoxide detectors and fire suppressors leaving the grieving families fighting to obtain the death benefits promised to them. And thats not to mention the 2,800 miners that were abruptly fired last week by text message in Soma. Do you really believe that these former employees will see a lira in severance pay?

Several more examples for you, but directly related to the teaching profession and specific to Turkey. My spouse has no college degree, no teaching credentials, not even an internet ESL certificate and with no intention of working was recruited on the street by the local state run college of over 20,000 students to teach English. No documents, no problem. The H.R. Department found plenty of credentials to stick in his folder, even a diploma and all within one week! Seems several of the teachers left on maternity leave all at once and they were short a few.

After moving from that town the same scenario occurred in the Turkish Capitol, the very heart and soul of government regulation. Very well paid cash job in a private Koleji, 40 hrs paid with 15 hours of teaching. Of course he could go home when he had no classes and wasn't required to attend any meetings as they were all held in Turkish while the Turkish teachers were clocking 60+ hours for half the pay. When the 'mandatory" Dept. of Education Officials came to do their annual inspection "duty" it was done by appointment so he was simply texted to stay home for that period with pay. No contract, no S.S. deductions, no taxes paid…….. nothing.

I addition, while there he was even recruited by the Ministry of Education to help produce educational materials at the State run offices, which he did voluntarily. Even had a nice shiny Ministry car come pick him up everyday.

Please don't assume that I'm anti Turkey because thats not the case, but I do believe in telling it like it is/was and not sugar coating the facts. Foreign teachers who are considering teaching in Turkey are ENTITLED to any information available, especially the young and inexperienced, including personal real life experiences. They can than make their own decisions on where the best fit for them is. The simple fact is, Turkey is not the most desirable place to seek employment at this time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
wander&teach



Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more FACT to consider before deciding on Turkey as an employment option. Do the math.

I always suggest that you Google not only the financial current data, but the historical financial data charts (prior 10 years) and exchange rates of ANY country you are considering. It can provide a good analysis of where the economy is headed in the short term (1 to 3 years).

Dec. 7, 2014

Central Bank Currency Rates

[b]Dollar 2.257 TL to the dollar
[b]Euro 2.772 TL to the euro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
billy orr



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said in my previous post:

Employment law is strong in Turkey and is being applied.

There must be a legal contract for someone to work.
Social Security must be paid. The fines are very high and applied.
If employment is terminated, once someone has been employed for more than 12 months, compensation must be paid, at the rate of one month gross salary for every year worked.
A lawyer is not necessary to prompt an enquiry into an employer, a form that can be got from a noter is enough.

For the system to work the onus is on individuals to complain to the relevant authorities. If aggrieved parties do not make a formal complaint then the situation will not improve. One of the biggest problems is that perceptions influence people more than the reality of the law. If people think there is no point complaining, then they will not complain and there is no way the situation can improve. Those who go around saying there is no point in trying to take action are helping the unscrupulous employers. The 'iş teftiş kurulu' which is part of the labour and social security ministry has offices all over the place and it is their job to investigate employers' malpractices in these areas. The SGK is also interested in employers who do not pay the right money. There are many channels that can be followed without resorting to an expensive lawyer.

Employers are constantly being prosecuted and fined for breaking these rules. Bailifs frequently appear at work places to enforce court orders in favour of staff.

It would be better to encourage people to pursue their rights rather than to spread the perception that there is no point. Of course, there is no guarantee of success but unless people try there is no way of knowing what might have happened.

To return to the original question, Delal, is there any more news on the severance pay? Have you considered speaking to the office that I mentioned above?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wander&teach



Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone, please feel free to P.M. me anytime!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
wander&teach



Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Delal,

Any updates on your predicament? It's been almost a month. Surely something must have transpired by now and it would be very helpful to the entire board to hear what it is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
delal



Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 251
Location: N Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:18 pm    Post subject: Sorry Reply with quote

Sorry everyone-I've been busy with exams
The company hasn't gone under so we all still have jobs, so I'm no wiser now re severance pay
Re the above debate, it appears from my own research that if a company has some money and you were legal then you have a chance of getting severance pay. How long that takes-and much it will cost you to get it-is dependent on many factors, however
PS Read that there's now an English Teachers' Union in Istanbul.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wander&teach



Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1-29-2015 - Todays Zaman

Turkish Lira at all time low.

2.4188 TL vs U.S. Dollar

2-09-2015

Turkish Lira at all time low.

2.4751 TL vs U.S. Dollar

2-11-2015

Turkish Lira at all time low.

2.5055 TL vs U.S. Dollar

3-15-2015

Turkish Lira at all time low

2.640 vs U.S. Dollar
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Turkey All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China