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Dealing with anger in VN
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Oh My God



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hobo6 wrote:
Go to Bien Hoa, which is just outside of HCMC. Great town of 700,000 that nobody knows about. You won't see more than 2 foreigners there (should you even find them) and the locals love you automatically because they never see Whitey. I taught there in a language school the first time, when I couldn't get a job in HCMC with any hours, and then returned again (tho not with the same results).


Ben Hoa and Thu Duc are both good places for full time work although be it at fairly low wages compared to most places in HCMC. Personally I don't care for the stardom from just being Whitey anymore but to each their own. Most expats don't care for Ben Hoa too much as it's basically isolation from other expats w/o making the trek of about 30 min or more!
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just spend a few days in Phan Rang, a small beach city about an hour away from Mui Nhe. Nice clean air, clean streets and minimal traffic made it a welcome get away from the noise and pollution of HCMC. The locals are a lot more friendly and the pace of life is a lot slower. Some people may argue that the 'quality of life' is better in HCMC but having to walk around with a mask (seeing it a lot more now, not just drivers) and maybe soon having to walk around with a helmet , I just don't find it these big crazy cities as appealing as they once were.
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking about bad manners:

http://tuoitrenews.vn/features/25612/littering-a-chronic-problem-in-vietnam

Quote:
Rubbish is seen scattered on Thu Thiem Bridge in Ho Chi Minh City on January 1, 2015.
Tuoi Tre
PrevNext

The despicable habit of littering in public places by Vietnamese people is blamed on poverty in this society.

>> An audio version of the story is available here

Some argue that lack of education and self-respect are the main reasons. Others complain about the absence of laws and inappropriate legal enforcement.

Whatever the reasons, it is a common sight that people throw rubbish into waterways and on the road of pilgrimages to pagodas.

It is easy to witness well-dressed guests disposing of facial tissues and leftover food all over the floor in restaurants.

Not only do normal people litter, but better-educated people do as well.

In some instances, delegates invited to conferences on environmental protection were found littering right after leaving the events.

Famliy plays the main part

Many Vietnamese people sent varied opinions about this bad practice to an online forum hosted by Tuoi Tre (Youth) newspaper.

Mai Duc Dung said family plays the main role in forming the habits of children, including littering, but many families ignore the matter. He stressed starting with the family to eliminate this bad habit.

“Blaming it on the role of the community will not uproot the problem,” he wrote.

Families should talk about littering as a bad habit with their children during their meals at home and teachers can help during their lectures at schools, according to Dung.

“You can’t be a good example if your children see you take leaflets while stopping at a red light and then throw them on the street when the light turns green,” he worte on the forum.

A person is inclined to behave the way he/she saw from childhood.

Nguyen Khanh Toan wrote to Tuoi Tre that littering is not a small problem at all since it erodes the efforts of ‘the minority of different people’ who has managed to keep and restore ‘civilized behaviors’ in public places.

“I know many people behave well but they belong to the minority,” he wrote. “A swallow can’t bring spring.”

He even said that, “Those who are really disabled are the people unable to control their behavior.

“What are your opinions about a person who eats fast, walks slowly, and kisses only in private but pisses in public?

“I often saw many people do all the things.”

On corners of alleys and streets, one can sometimes see words scrawled on walls to insult violators, such as ‘Only Dogs Piss Here.’ This is clearly meant to hurt the self-respect of some people.

Loss of trust in community

A man who threw a bag of rubbish into the waterway of the Ben Nghe Canal in Ho Chi Minh City admitted to Tuoi Tre, “If I had not done it, others would have done it.”

Is that really the reason for his littering into the canal? Or is his lack of confidence to benefit from a clean canal, even though he tries to keep it clean, to blame?

Both of them should be seen as the reasons. And the man’s reply is not rare at all, as many have said it after being questioned on their trashing.

Those throwing garbage in public places are not only short of awareness of preserving the environment but they also have no confidence in others in their community.

This absence of trust results from what they usually see in daily life such as littering, graft, unfairness in crackdowns on rule violations.

That is to say, a traffic law breaker who has connections with police officers is often spared any penalty but others get fined.

One would see very often that a man takes out his mobile phone after being pulled over by traffic cops and acts as if he were calling someone in high positions before talking to the policemen.

Uncivilized behavior

A common scene at music shows and in stadiums is one of papers, snack bags, plastic bottles, and food boxes scattered all over the ground after the events.

Sometimes, people can be seen in expensive cars lowering their window and throw out a coconut or other rubbish while the cars are moving.

Not only do people litter, they even jostle and push, talk and laugh loudly, and insult others in public places.

“I saw young people attend a talk with Nick Vujicic, an Australian motivational speaker born without limbs, at Thong Nhat Stadium [in Ho Chi Minh City] last year.

“They joined the audience and during the entire talk they just played games on their iPads.

“Others behind me made impolite comments to insult the speaker they came to listen to and burst out into laughter,” the reader Toan wrote.

Wasting is another problem. Organizers of some events distribute soft drinks for free to all participants, many of whom only drink a part and throw away the rest.

The problem can be easily observed at buffet parties. After buying their tickets, guests begin loading food onto their dishes but eat just some of it and leave the leftovers before taking more food.

“I just want to say frankly that those behaviors are not nice and are certainly not to be proud of for themselves and for Vietnam at all,” Toan underlined.

Some responses on the Tuoi Tre forum tried to calm the nerves of ‘the minority of people’ in the community by saying, “Don’t worry, everyone will improve when Vietnam becomes richer.”

But it takes a lot of time to try to brainstorm the connection between the GDP of Vietnam and the problem of littering in public.

Problematic law enforcement

Vietnam has regulations to punish those who litter in public places, but in reality, few have ever been fined.

It seems that authorities pay more attention to wiping out other social evils than littering.

In developed nations like Singapore and in Europe, the awareness of people and effective legal enforcement grew together to establish clean nations.
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A question that matters now

Thanh Nien News. Original Vietnamese story by TBKTSG

Tuesday, May 20, 2014 10:30 Email Print
RELATED NEWS

Thailand to scrap offensive tourist rule after Vietnamese outcry
What have we done to our country’s public image?

In the face of other countries’ discriminatory tourism and travel policies, Vietnamese people need to ask themselves “Why us?”

A Vietnamese notice at a Thai buffet restaurant warns customers not to take more than they can eat, or they will be fined 200-500 bath. FILE PHOTO
The Thai immigration authority has finally announced that it will scrap a regulation requiring Vietnamese tourists to present cash and pose for a photograph with the money before being allowed to pass through a Cambodian border crossing.
Many Vietnamese tourists decried the rule as discriminatory and offensive, saying that the process made them feel as if they were criminals.
While the problem has been solved, Vietnamese people need to look at themselves critically, because “there’s no smoke without fire.”
No country wants to cause problems for the tourists who bring them money.
Thai people felt the need to treat Vietnamese the way they did because, after all, Vietnamese have brought many bad things to their country.
The press in both countries has extensively reported stories of Vietnamese caught engaging in prostitution and other illegal lines of work like pick-pocketing during Thai festivals.
So far, the Vietnamese authorities haven't offered any solutions.
As such, it's hardly surprising that Thailand isn't the only country that's exhibited prejudice against Vietnamese.
In destinations like Japan, Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan, there are signboards written in Vietnamese describing punishments for violations of local rules--everything from taking too much food at buffets to stealing from supermarkets.
Compared to neighboring countries like Thailand and the Philippines, Vietnamese citizens have a much harder time getting visas to developed countries, including Japan and the US.
Some of my foreign acquaintances have chosen not to apply for Vietnamese citizenship, despite loving the country a lot, for fear it will bring them trouble while traveling overseas.
Many people blamed Vietnamese bad manners on poverty. But, why aren't Cambodian and Lao people discriminated against?
Foreigners look down on Vietnamese, because we behave so badly when visiting their countries.
Working as an outbound tour guide for many years, I've felt ashamed of bad Vietnamese manners many times.
We rarely queue up, even when abroad.
At buffets many reach under taller foreigners’ arms to get to food. Not only do they take much more than they can eat, they also secretly take leftovers home.
Many refuse to give way to others, hastily rushing into elevators or getting on subway trains without waiting for the people inside to leave first.
Many wear clothes that are more suitable for a bedroom than going outdoors. And, their habits of littering, spitting, smoking, holding toothpicks in their mouths after meals, or jaywalking are exhibited even among intellectuals and businesspeople.
During tours, Vietnamese rarely listen to introductions about local culture and history, but rush here and there to take photos. Despite signs reading "no trespassing," they sit on lawns to pose with flowers.
Many love showing off their wealth, despite making every effort to cheat store clerks or sneak past ticket takers because, they say, “it is exhilarating to do something secretly.”
Worse, many pretend to enter other countries as tourists, but overstay their visas to work illegally. Those who go overseas to work under proper contracts sometimes quit their jobs to work illegally or establish robbery and smuggling gangs.
The international image of Vietnamese people has never been as bad as it is now. Discrimination against Vietnamese exists in almost all foreign countries in different forms and levels and for good reasons.
It's a pity that not a single local agency has taken steps to address this problem.
Vietnamese bad manners obviously stem from people's attitude toward rules and laws. Many believe that because rules can be easily bent in Vietnam with money and power, the same goes for other countries.
Let’s start with making law enforcement in our own country strict and effective. Then we can take the necessary steps toward punishing overseas crimes.
Each and every one of us needs to improve our manners. In this digital age, anything can go viral on the Internet in a blink. Whether we want it or not, bad behavior anywhere can become known to the world in just a few minutes.
Without strong measures, Vietnamese behavior overseas will continue to bring more trouble than fun. Only we can help ourselves. It is impossible to force others to form good impressions of us, given that we still have many problems that need to be fixed.
Nguyen Van My
* The writer is the chairman of Lua Viet Tours Company in Ho Chi Minh City and has worked as an outbound tour guide for many years. The views expressed are his own.
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 743

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB400 do you have the link to that article? I'd like to ask some of my Vietnamese friends what they think of it.
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2218
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ExpatLuke wrote:
CB400 do you have the link to that article? I'd like to ask some of my Vietnamese friends what they think of it.


I also want the link as well Cool


Last edited by Prof.Gringo on Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first one: http://tuoitrenews.vn/features/25612/littering-a-chronic-problem-in-vietnam

http://www.thanhniennews.com/commentaries/a-question-that-matters-now-26467.html

I would like to know what your friends say. Most of my Vietnamese friends will pretend to care though I think this is the reaction they think we expect about it.

Clearly, 99.99% don't give a poo.
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2218
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb400 wrote:
The first one: http://tuoitrenews.vn/features/25612/littering-a-chronic-problem-in-vietnam

http://www.thanhniennews.com/commentaries/a-question-that-matters-now-26467.html

I would like to know what your friends say. Most of my Vietnamese friends will pretend to care though I think this is the reaction they think we expect about it.

Clearly, 99.99% don't give a poo.


Why is that? What is the reason? Is it cultural? The education "system"? Poor family values? All of the above?
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BenNguyen



Joined: 09 Feb 2014
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a mix of everything above.

cb400, if you want to try martial arts, there should be a club at #2 Hồ Xu�n Hương, 6, 3 Hồ Ch� Minh. There are a variety of different sports there that you can try out.
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 743

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb400 wrote:
The first one: http://tuoitrenews.vn/features/25612/littering-a-chronic-problem-in-vietnam

http://www.thanhniennews.com/commentaries/a-question-that-matters-now-26467.html

I would like to know what your friends say. Most of my Vietnamese friends will pretend to care though I think this is the reaction they think we expect about it.

Clearly, 99.99% don't give a poo.


I showed it to some of my friends who work in hospitality at some of the 5 star resorts here in Danang. They agreed with it 100%. They say that Vietnamese guests are hands-down the worst guests to deal with. Chinese are the second worse. I asked them why they think this is, and they said they just think Vietnamese don't know how they're supposed to act. They think if they have money, they're entitled to do whatever they want. And money is supposed to = respect, so if they feel like they're disrespected, they'll get loud and flash around their money to make themselves look more important.
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks fof that update. I am in Europe at the moment and I can tell you the Vietnamese and Chinese are not liked in these parts. Something about piss poor manners and no respect for the environment.

Then again the Brits and their stag parties are not loved here also.
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenNguyen wrote:
I think it's a mix of everything above.

cb400, if you want to try martial arts, there should be a club at #2 Hồ Xu�n Hương, 6, 3 Hồ Ch� Minh. There are a variety of different sports there that you can try out.


Thanks for the info Ben, but I am out of Vietnam for good now.

Take care
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I'm With Stupid



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 430

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also the sense of it being pointless. Why should I make the effort to go to the bin when the restaurant down the street is dropping something new on the floor every 30 seconds. As Sean Lock once said, I feel like I've turned up to an earthquake with a dustpan and brush.
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because the health implications will effect your family and you in the near future. The life expectancy in some Chinese citieis 15 years less in really polluted cities. Plus the rest of the civilized world doesn't want the pollution creep from China and Vietnam.

I know its a pointless agruement, most VN just are not able to understand this as shown in the articles.
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh look!! Vietnamese drivers have turned into model citizens overnight!!! The proof is here.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/25812/saigon-drivers-in-compliance-with-traffic-laws-photos

oh shoot one slip through the cracks:http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/25827/vietnam-driver-showcases-flair-in-near-headon-crash
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