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Dealing with anger in VN
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vietnam needs these guys 'fight the douche bag movement'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8__8VrfV6o
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why do you freaking honk?

Let me put the question another way.
Is honking free speech or a crime?
In Vietnam, it’s pretty much the first one, and it sounds so bad on the packed roads of Saigon.
I was traveling to work this morning when the driver of a giant public bus kept honking his horn on tiny Nguyen Du Street. Cars and motorbikes tried to give way, but there was not much space.
So the bus driver kept at it until we all came to a red light. 30 seconds… 15… 5… 3… BEEP! BEEP! He was honking again even before the green light was back on. I turned into another road just to escape from him.
Some people say public bus drivers have time pressure. But it is not just them who are horn-happy. Many others are also quick on the draw, blowing the horn for no reason except that they want to go ahead.
My foreign friends say they can get at least one middle finger shown if they honk at another driver to indicate they want them to give way.
One afternoon two years ago my friend was driving me around Kuala Lumpur when a car in front of her kept zigzagging. We never found out if the driver was high on drugs, drunk or sick.
My friend had to slow down for fear of getting into a crash, but after around five minutes she lost patience.
She honked loud and long, which made the driver drive straight and move to one side for her to pass.
She immediately sped up.
“That driver might follow us and beat us,” she told me.
A Filipino friend in the car was also scared.
“What do you do that for?” he almost screamed.
I was not. Unfortunately, in Vietnam, you are not scared of honking at people. Honking is so loud and so often in the country that people just seem to accept it, and you should be scared, in fact, of asking them not to honk.
Vehicle horns are designed for the primary purpose of warning other vehicles of danger. Some also use it to punish others doing the wrong thing on the road, like my friend did.
But somewhere along the way, it has become habitual and a major cause of noise pollution, not just in Vietnam but around the world. The World Health Organization said in a 2011 report that one million healthy life years were lost every year due to traffic-related noise in Western Europe.
Since honking is a habit, it is hard to stop, just like we cannot stop people from using plastic bags or smoking even by printing graphic lung and throat cancer images on the pack.
From what I have read, there is a campaign in Mumbai to curb its honking “epidemic” by installing a device called Bleep to help drivers become aware of their unconscious honking.
It is a red button with a frowning face near the steering wheel that beeps repeatedly when the driver honks. They have to press the button to silence it.
Tests found honking by cars with the button reduced by 61 percent.
Most other countries use cash fines, which is US$350 in New York. In Peru, which is also known for its honking problem, the police can seize the vehicle as well.
Vietnam has a maximum fine of VND200,000, or less than $10, on drivers if their honking disturbs the peace in a residential area between 10 p.m. and 5 a.m.
In a country where traffic cops force people to drive past red lights and stop at green to make way for officials’ cars (I’ve seen that with my own eyes in Saigon), such a rule hardly means anything.
One time I was in a taxi when the driver said a young girl had paid him twice the fare for not touching his horn. I was not sure if it was a suggestion for me, but yes, a driver who controls themselves from honking in the city deserves a reward.
It really gets on your nerves when in heavy traffic drivers keep pressing their horns and pass their stress and impatience to others.
Maybe paying a few bucks to stop people from honking is a good solution.
* Editor's note: The view is personal and does not necessarily reflect the editorial position of Thanh Nien News.
Code:


http://www.thanhniennews.com/commentaries/why-do-you-freaking-honk-43962.html
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VietCanada



Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bottom line for this thread is if you don't have a sense of humour, if you can't accept that other cultures have wholly different and sometimes unintelligable (to you) social compact then you need to work on that or change careers.

Colonialism and imperialism have made people angry. Just ask the aboriginals in your country if you have any.

Get a sense of humour and some enlightenment. Your survival skills will appreciate it.

Or just go home and quit making things more difficult for the rest of us.
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theoriginalprankster



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 763

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb400's post was good - I've lived in China for 10 years, 3 in Taiwan, and been most countries in Asia.

It amazes me that while the Chinese sit on the horn, the Thais are pretty chilled about it, considering their awful traffic.

Malaysia wasn't bad. HK was great. Taiwan reasonable. Philippines ok.

Vietnam and China neck and neck as the loudest, rudest road users I reckon. I've cussed out a few 'chops' (South African term - google it) who've come up behind me on my bicycle in their new/shiny/expensive car or scooter, and sat on the horn.

Makes my blood boil. One of the things stopping me from taking a job in VN. One of the reasons I left China.
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I'm With Stupid



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 430

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VietCanada wrote:
The bottom line for this thread is if you don't have a sense of humour, if you can't accept that other cultures have wholly different and sometimes unintelligable (to you) social compact then you need to work on that or change careers.

Colonialism and imperialism have made people angry. Just ask the aboriginals in your country if you have any.

Get a sense of humour and some enlightenment. Your survival skills will appreciate it.

Or just go home and quit making things more difficult for the rest of us.

How do you account for all of the Vietnamese people who hate some of these things too, and would like to change them? Are they cultural imperialists too? Or are rudeness, rule breaking and noise pollution simply undesirable in any culture?
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JulianMikka



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VietCanada wrote:
The bottom line for this thread is if you don't have a sense of humour, if you can't accept that other cultures have wholly different and sometimes unintelligable (to you) social compact then you need to work on that or change careers.

Colonialism and imperialism have made people angry. Just ask the aboriginals in your country if you have any.

Get a sense of humour and some enlightenment. Your survival skills will appreciate it.

Or just go home and quit making things more difficult for the rest of us.


Most people in Vietnam do not like things the way they are. But they are confronted by the Double D’s. Dominance and Deference. The way people operate vehicles is reflective of the way the culture operates as the road is public space where it is not them being asses, but the vehicle that is rude. Think about how many times you have seen someone on the straight Mad Max on the bike or in the vehicle, and once they become a pedestrian…….all smiles and kind. People can express feelings that they wont say on the road because they know what they think is not cool. And the road is an expression of social stratification and desires.

I can go the wrong way down the road,it’s just a little. And that translates in the real world into: I can cheat on the test, its just a little.I can overcharge the foreigner, it’s just a little. I can be late everyday its just a little.
I have my expensive vehicle. It is a symbol of my greatness and richness. I can drive it wherever I want and all will know I am superior and get out of my way. I will use my horn to remind them.
I am a poor person with limited means and prospects. But when I drive this truck/bus/van….I am as big and strong as this vehicles and it projects all the things I wish I were. And when someone/something lesser gets in my way, I will use my horn to remind them.

The result of this (for the lack of a better word) thinking is why Vietnam is always in the bottom five of traffic accidents and fatalities. So why do people say nothing? Deference. Somehow, if you call out people for their bad behavior and rudeness, you are the rude one. If you put them in a position where they cannot deny their rudeness, you are the rude one for making them feel bad. And what really makes it hard is the cheating and corner cutting even the nice people do without thinking. It is so difficult to get ahead in Vietnam by fair means or foul, any sliver of an opportunity is grasped. So it makes reforms really difficult as it will take a really strong group of selfless people to openly stand hard against the behavior that is not liked/but used by all. Asking people to find it humorous and to be enlightened makes light of how dangerous and present the issues are.

JM
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 743

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, Jm, rarely do I see someone express my almost exact thoughts so clearly. Spot on in my opinion. And it's the conclusions I've reached as well.
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skarper



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 473

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good analysis Julianmikka.

As foreigners we can do little except perhaps set a better example. I don't expect people to follow but a few may understand there is a better way to behave.

I try not to join in the cheating, bullying and being late for everything, but sometimes we have to cheat and we have to use our status to our advantage or we would never get anything done. Being late starts to become a habit but I try to be on time. A good way to deal with persistently late people is make the appointment 10-20 minutes ahead of the time you need them to attend [though this is often not within our control].

I don't think this is in any way unique to Vietnam. There is a lot of this in Japan too - just better disguised as 'etiquette'. Western countries have their own issues too.
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VietCanada



Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure that we can't find people in any country in the world who don't think their country matches up to their expectations.

I am sure that here in VN as in other countries most are satisfied enough or we would be seeing revolution everywhere!

OTOH it's very easy to find people who think other countries are doing it wrong just because their country does it the best way!

Live and let live. Life will find a way.
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 743

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VietCanada wrote:
I'm not sure that we can't find people in any country in the world who don't think their country matches up to their expectations.

I am sure that here in VN as in other countries most are satisfied enough or we would be seeing revolution everywhere!

OTOH it's very easy to find people who think other countries are doing it wrong just because their country does it the best way!

Live and let live. Life will find a way.


Yes, a country that has the one of the worst records in traffic fatalities should just keep doing as they've always done. Get real. Just because we're pointing out some obvious problems Vietnam has, doesn't mean you need to come to its defence.

You sound like a fool. To ignore problems that even the locals hate, just shows how even after several years, you haven't adjusted to the culture.
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VietCanada wrote:
I'm not sure that we can't find people in any country in the world who don't think their country matches up to their expectations.

I am sure that here in VN as in other countries most are satisfied enough or we would be seeing revolution everywhere!

OTOH it's very easy to find people who think other countries are doing it wrong just because their country does it the best way!

Live and let live. Life will find a way.


Wouldn't it be better for the Vietnamese if so many didn't die or get severely injured in (most cases) avoidable accidents?

It is a lot of needless pain and suffering they Vietnamese could do without. Also there is plenty of research regarding the drain of these accidents on the health care system.
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weigookin74



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EFL Educator wrote:
During the Socialist era the Vietnamese had manners, morals and ethics...that all changed when they embraced ultra neo capitalism....the result of this especially on the road when it is everyone for himself HONK HONK HONK and MONEY is the new God and where personal human greed (manure) comes first!!!! Welcome to the NEW Vietnam and enjoy the HONKITY HONK BEEP BEEP TRAFFIC NOISE!!!!!!!!! Shocked Shocked Shocked


Did folks also not get sent to re education camps and were more persecuted than they are today? Were they not more hungry and more fearful? Do folks not have more freedom today?
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VietCanada



Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm With Stupid wrote:
VietCanada wrote:
The bottom line for this thread is if you don't have a sense of humour, if you can't accept that other cultures have wholly different and sometimes unintelligable (to you) social compact then you need to work on that or change careers.

Colonialism and imperialism have made people angry. Just ask the aboriginals in your country if you have any.

Get a sense of humour and some enlightenment. Your survival skills will appreciate it.

Or just go home and quit making things more difficult for the rest of us.

How do you account for all of the Vietnamese people who hate some of these things too, and would like to change them? Are they cultural imperialists too? Or are rudeness, rule breaking and noise pollution simply undesirable in any culture?


I think they just accept it as the way things are. I am not saying that the people you refer to wouldn't want to change things. But how would you do that?

I saw a few posters about drinking and driving around my neck of the woods recently.
I guess that is a start.

A lot of VN people I see everyday just accept that that's the way things are and deal with it. They appear to have better things to do with their time than whigning about things that bother foreign nationals.
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 743

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VietCanada wrote:
They appear to have better things to do with their time than whigning about things that bother foreign nationals.


An English "teacher" who can't even spell properly. You're an embarrassment to the profession.

EDIT: I'm also beginning to doubt whether or not you actually live in Vietnam. Vietnamese love to complain about things. In fact, they sit around for hours complaining about neighbors, prices, government, things in the news. Don't you ever interact with locals?
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VietCanada



Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb400 wrote:
VietCanada wrote:
I'm not sure that we can't find people in any country in the world who don't think their country matches up to their expectations.

I am sure that here in VN as in other countries most are satisfied enough or we would be seeing revolution everywhere!

OTOH it's very easy to find people who think other countries are doing it wrong just because their country does it the best way!

Live and let live. Life will find a way.


Wouldn't it be better for the Vietnamese if so many didn't die or get severely injured in (most cases) avoidable accidents?

It is a lot of needless pain and suffering they Vietnamese could do without. Also there is plenty of research regarding the drain of these accidents on the health care system.


I agree. I am not that interested in recalling some of the horrific things I and/or my wife have seen here.

Well maybe a couple to make the point.

A toddler who ran at a moving motorbike in a narrow alley. His leg got under the rear wheel somehow. The boy spun around in a complete circle with a horrified, helpless look on his face. I know because his face was looking right at mine through the whole ordeal. Somehow he wasn't injured. The young couple on the bike where assured and sent on their way by the neighbours and parents.

A very young man on a bicycle who made a right turn to exit the street without looking. He turned in front of a car and was run over. A tire ran over his head crushing it. He was a waiter my wife knew at the coffee shop we were going to. He was going there too.

A crazed man jumping some guy for no reason and stabbing him multiple times in the back. The knife broke inside the guy. Everyone knew he was crazy.

Every day I go to work or just simply take a walk there are usually multiple incidents in which I felt lucky not to be in an accident. That's the way it is here. Drive carefully with one hand on the brake as opposed to both on the accelerator. Only look forward. Never look behind or even acknowledge the existence peripheral vision.

Congratulations you just beamed down to the planet Vietnam. They ain't changing for you. They might however dig in if you get mouthy enough.

Oh yeah, last Saturday the couple who rent out my in-laws front room as a barber shop had a bit of a problem. Apparently the guy cut some customers hair a bit short. So he broke the barber's arm. My wife was there for that.

And then there's the young couple that thought their neighbour was making too much noise. She went out to complain. He went out because they were yelling at his wife a bit much. He was stabbed dead with a knife. He was the son of my next door neighbour who is an elderly retired public school English teacher.

The guy who got beat up and so he stabbed the victor with a knife the next day.

Accident scenes with a car and multiple broken motorbikes.

Some western teacher or wealthy VN gonna change all this with some single philosophical plea? Especially when the wealthy VN can pay a few bucks to escape charges after running over somebody with their car. The system works for them. They'll
tweak it on their time as it suits them just like our governments do in our countries.


Last edited by VietCanada on Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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