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Do I have a chance in Poland?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11446
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AussieGus wrote:
Any other ideas would be appreciated. I think everywhere in the ME wants an MA. Where could I go with an unrelated BA, TESOL and 7 years Asian esl experience that isn't Asia and would provide my family with a reasonable standard of living?

You're correct about the Middle East. Despite Dragonpiwo's claims that the Gulf has plenty of well-paid jobs for those without MAs, he didn't take your unrelated BA into account nor that many Saudi employers (particularly contracting companies) issue "bachelor" (single) status visas only and provide single housing. You can get a job in KSA, but you're very likely to be responsible financially for your family's airfare, education, health care, residency permits, and housing.

That said, seriously consider upgrading your qualifications if you want to compete for the better teaching jobs worldwide. Not what you want to hear, but that's the reality as more teachers with relevant degrees, especially MAs, flood the TEFL market.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AussieGus wrote:
Where could I go with an unrelated BA, TESOL and 7 years Asian esl experience that isn't Asia and would provide my family with a reasonable standard of living?
The problem is that you're looking at it from the perspective of having to provide for your family without your wife actually working. I'm financially ok (not rich, not poor, just normal middle class) in Poland, but my wife has her own business. I can't imagine trying to fund a family (with two children) on a single salary - if nothing else, we both have careers, so if one of us were to get really sick - then the other still has a career. Anyway, what happened to all those jobs in mining in Australia? I'm sure I read about one guy who was driving huge trucks while studying for an MA....
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AussieGus



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks mate.

Mining jobs are only available if you have a trade. Many believe that they're a gold mine but it just isn't the case.

Australia sucks.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11446
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AussieGus wrote:
Australia sucks.

You can't put "blame" on the country. The fact is that you've remained stagnant while others moved forward by beefing up their qualifications (skills and/or education). Frankly, a BA is now equivalent to a high school diploma---it doesn't carry much value.
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
The fact is that you've remained stagnant while others moved forward by beefing up their qualifications (skills and/or education). Frankly, a BA is now equivalent to a high school diploma---it doesn't carry much value.
I remember the days when all you needed was a BA in any field in order to get well-paying job in Japan, Korea or Thailand. My how times have changed.

AussieGus, have you considered looking for TEFL work in Australia? Surely many of those immigrants arriving will be needing to improve their English level.

Latin America TEFL pays mediocre at best.
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AussieGus



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No chance in Australia.

I've sent hundreds of resumes to private English academies without a single response. Apparently I'm qualified to work at one, however. It does suck here, unless your an immigrant. Then its paradise. The pervasive political correctness has ruined Australia and no one can even highlight the issue (that multiculturalism doesn't work) without being labeled a racist. Anglo Aussies are being left out in the cold, forced to compete on equal terms for menial jobs against immigrants with superior work ethic and no one lifts a finger against the blatant reverse racism. Unlike nearly other ethnic group on earth, they actively discriminate against their own kind. I'd have a better chance here if I painted my skin black or underwent eyelid surgery.

Before anyone jumps on me I'm about as far as a racist as you could get. My Chinese wife often shakes her head in disbelief and says 'You white Aussies don't know what your doing to yourselves in bending over backwards to accommodate these immigrants. Would they do the same for you?' I think not.

Australia just LOVES to hold the moral high ground. Look how virtuous our country is. So kind and compassionate. We prefer to look after minorities and refugees at the expense of locals. Pathetic.

Master Shake those refugees you speak of are actually far more employable here than I am. Its illegal to discriminate against someone here on the basis of English language ability.


Last edited by AussieGus on Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:38 am; edited 3 times in total
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think when you say "superior work ethic", you've hit the nail on the head. You've had 7 years, yet you haven't progressed academically in that time - in a field where academic progression is valued. When you look at the good TEFL jobs online, they all want a DELTA, they all want an MA (preferably in linguistics or a related field) and so on.
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AussieGus



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your missing the point delphian. Anyway I can't even gain admission to a DELTA, Master of Education, etc. My undergrad results were inadequate. I forgot to mention Australia is also elistist.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11446
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AussieGus wrote:
Your missing the point delphian. Anyway I can't even gain admission to a DELTA, Master of Education, etc. My undergrad results were inadequate.

The Delta isn't an academic teaching qualification; your undergrad GPA won't affect your ability to enroll in the program. Continuing to blame others for your situation is pure excuse-making.
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Shimokitazawa



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AussieGus wrote:
Your missing the point delphian. Anyway I can't even gain admission to a DELTA, Master of Education, etc. My undergrad results were inadequate. I forgot to mention Australia is also elistist.


You and that other guy on the Japan forum should get together and compare notes. It is shocking how you guys seem to think that you deserve jobs yet have done nothing to obtain even the most basic TEFL credential or related education. The irony here is we have people who want to be teachers yet are against education. What a sense of entitlement.

And the fact that you think that admission to a DELTA program is somehow linked to your GPA shows me that you have not even looked into it.

Where I will agree with you, however, is being a white bloke in the UK, US, Canada or Australia is no longer as advantageous as it once was. There's a hate on for men now in these western cultures and the pecking order is now as follows, and this pertains to educational and career opportunities, especially in government:

Attractive women
Women
Lesbians / Gay men
Immigrants - Chinese, Indians
Aboriginals
White men

If you are a woman, gay or an immigrant and switched on, you will win out over an equally qualified - no, even more qualified - male in most cases if you are applying for a government position. The same applies for promotions. I've seen it happen many times. However, many people are starting to raise a big stink about hiring quotas and university admissions quotas in the US.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11523
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you are a woman, gay or an immigrant and switched on, you will win out over an equally qualified - no, even more qualified - male in most cases if you are applying for a government position.


So, none (or nearly none) of the women in government positions have earned the job?


Right. Rolling Eyes
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1633
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: re the OP Reply with quote

So basically, Poland's a 'no' then.

I've pmed you. There's tonnes of well-paid work in the Middle East even if you don't have an MA. You just have to start looking and keep trying. Only the uni gigs/HCT mob need MAs.

There are plenty of other fields; oil and gas and the military being 2 of 'em.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11446
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: re the OP Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
I've pmed you. There's tonnes of well-paid work in the Middle East even if you don't have an MA. You just have to start looking and keep trying. Only the uni gigs/HCT mob need MAs.

There are plenty of other fields; oil and gas and the military being 2 of 'em.

However... In Saudi Arabia, military contractors Booz Allen, Raytheon, DynCorp, B3H. and Northrup Grumman only hire US citizens. Aramco contractors and BAE (which recently turned you down) require TEFL-related degrees. UAE military contractor Shamal Solutions only hires US and Canadian citizens. So, what's left?

You continue to tout positions that don't require an MA. However, the OP's BA isn't even related to TEFL. If you want to give him job leads, that should be your focus along with the fact that he's Australian (potential visa issue) and intends to have his family with him and covered under his benefits. He's never mentioned salary expectations.

Anyway, if the OP wants to consider positions in the Mid East, he should post in the general ME forum. There are posters with recent Gulf experience who can answer his specific questions.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1633
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

Yep BAe did turn me down. I have no idea why but it's really irrelevant. I have 2 friends who were recently recruited and neither of them has an MA or a related degree. However, both, unlike me and my pal who was recently rejected, are single.There are several Australian recruiters who have OK gigs in Saudi. I've pmed him. There are also a few ok-ish jobs dotted around elsewhere, which pay more than Saudi universities. I've pointed him in the direction of a few who do married status and don't mind if the wife is from Asia. BAe Australia have a few jobs right now.

I still work for an oil company but this extended leave is getting old and I have 2 interviews in the next 2 weeks. I don't have an MA and both jobs knock the socks off BAe. What I do have is a lot experience teaching Oil and Gas and Technical English. Oil companies like that.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11446
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
There are also a few ok-ish jobs dotted around elsewhere, which pay more than Saudi universities.

For clarification, those positions at Saudi universities are with contracting companies (middlemen) and not the universities directly. Teachers hired directly by the the universities generally have a related MA and therefore, receive better pay and benefits. Those openings rarely appear on the Cafe's job board, but instead, are advertised at TESOL Arabia's job fair along with other employers' vacancies in the region. Additionally, employers---direct hire and contracting companies---don't just focus on an applicant's academic degree; the quality, length, and relevance of experience are considered as well. Oil and military contracts typically pay more than university positions---no surprise there. The same goes for hazard pay.

Anyway, I'm done hijacking the OP's thread with comments about ME jobs. He can pop over to the relevant country forums if he feels the need.
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