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Do I have a chance in Poland?
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AussieGus



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:14 pm    Post subject: Do I have a chance in Poland? Reply with quote

Hi all.

I'm a 38 year old Australian with a BA, TESOL and 7 years teaching experience in Asia. I'm looking for somewhere to settle with my young family where I can teach again. Australia is ultra competitive these days and the best I can get is menial, laboring work. Australia is overrun with recent immigrants desperate to stay and Aussies are being increasingly marginalized. Had enough. Poland has been suggested as a possible destination but are the standards much higher than Korea, for example? Would I be able to support my wife and two young kids (under 3) in Poland? I'm Anglo Australian and my wife is Chinese.

Thanks in advance.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11496
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd be very much at entry level in the entire region (not just Poland), and I seriously doubt you'd find anything that would allow you to support a family of 4, even if your standard of living is very, very modest.
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Louisdf



Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely agree with Spiral78, your experience in Asia would not be valued here as learnig styles and students expectations are completely different. If you did come here, you would certainly not be offered a job. You would have to go to several schools and you would simply be offered a few 60/90 minute classes scattered around the city mostly between 7-9am and after 5pm (IF you can persaude them to support you with your paperwork). Students will be able to cancel the day before (you don't get paid) and you wouldn't earn anything in Easter, Christmas and during various other public holidays. So not good if you have high expenses every month. Generally in Europe (except for top University and DOS full-time jobs), schools only offer money suitable for a single person who has a moderate lifestyle AND savings to rely on. It would certainly not support 4 people. Also, it is unlikely your wife would be able to stay in Europe legally. In addition, you would have to pay at least 1500zl to pay for nursery care as there are not enough spaces in the public nurseries for Polish kids, never mind foreigners.
Asia and the Middle East are much more suitable places.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 672

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not impossible (for instance, I'm looking for a teacher now, and free nursery care is part of the deal for all employees...) - but the salary is on a par with Polish public schools. That means between 2000-4000zl a month. The problem is that even if you got the top end of that, you'd be looking at expenses of around 50-60% of your salary before you even consider anything else. Louisdf isn't quite right - there are spaces in public nurseries (the situation isn't quite as dire as many people make it out to be - the real issue is in 0-3 "zlobek" type places). Your wife isn't a problem - you have a right to be with your family, and if you get a residence/work permit, then they have a right to join you. But consider that you would need resident permits for all your family, which are something like 350zl a shot. Let's say you get 4000zl a month - then you've just spent your first month salary on residence permits and expenses.
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Janek



Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Krakow, Poland

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xxx

Last edited by Janek on Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1600
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Not a chance Reply with quote

Not a chance mate. I've lived here on and off since 1995. I started working again here 2 months ago as I have to fill my time until I return to the Middle East. I have a Polish wife, who has a Masters and a good job and I have a son.

Delphian-Domain has a good job but it's a rare, rare thing here. Most likely, you will get a duff job and have to do privates early mornings and evenings. The going rate in Poznan is about a Zloty a minute minus tax and insurance. Poland is NOT cheap unless you live on a bus and never go out. Kids clothes cost as much if not more than the UK as do the toys. I'm working part-time, just 10 hours a week but with the running around it feels like 20. I started working on November 10th and am still awaiting my first bit of dosh. My private classes are off until January 8th, which means lost income. It is not a viable way of life for anything other than the very short-term unless you get very lucky and/or have a partner with a decent income. If you want to earn more here, it means working more full stop! That is not ideal if you have kids. Poles will always hire according to the bottom line, which is money, so forget having experience as they can hire a fuckwit with no experience for the less and that's what they will do. My wife and I rarely go out and spend about 7000 a month. You'll be lucky to take home 4k.

Try the Middle East. You'll have a lovely family life, earn a fair bit and teach much less. I've lived in Qatar, Libya, Kuwait and Saudi. I have married friends with kids in Saudi, the UAE and Kuwait and I was with my first wife and nipper in Qatar. Great places for family living, cheap childcare and opportunities for your wife. Poland does not make it easy for foreigners and the TEFL market is awash with teachers. If you go to the Middle East, you will also have options to leave. If you come to Poland, you won't have the money to go elsewhere as saving that 4k in Sterling to set yourself up will be hard as hell. I spend my savings every month and am itching to leave.

About a dozen people post regularly on this board. A few are ringers and clearly need to recruit people. There are 1000s of teachers here and most are male, young/ish, have no kids and are unmarried. The vast majority live a hand to mouth existence.

Good luck with the paper work for visas etc. It takes an age, you'll need to fork out for translations and be physically present in these offices.

Don't do it. You'll ruin your life.
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AussieGus



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dragon and the others who responded.

I suspected Europe would be a waste of time and those negative replies confirmed it. What surprises me though is that you've actually praised the Middle East for someone in my shoes. I've only heard the most dastardly things about the entire region for example (I'd have to mad to even consider it, they're the most intolerant people on earth, etc) but you've made it sound feasible, even a desirable destination. What gives?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11352
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dragonpiwo wrote:
Try the Middle East. You'll have a lovely family life, earn a fair bit and teach much less. I've lived in Qatar, Libya, Kuwait and Saudi. I have married friends with kids in Saudi, the UAE and Kuwait and I was with my first wife and nipper in Qatar. Great places for family living, cheap childcare and opportunities for your wife.

A lovely life in the Middle East? Not quite. The better, direct-hire positions in KSA require a relevant MA---ditto for teaching jobs Qatar, Kuwait, and the UAE. With an unrelated BA, the OP may qualify for a teaching job in Oman with Hawthorn or Tati. However, the pay is the lowest of the GCC. His only other option is with one of the numerous Saudi contracting companies, and many of them don't provide family visas. Plus, they tend to be sketchy.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1600
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:40 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

There are plenty of jobs which don't require an MA. Some very well-paid ones at that if you are OK teaching for oil companies or the military.

Life in the UAE or Qatar is great for families. The countries are safe, childcare is cheap and there's an outdoor life right there.

Compare that to slaving away in Europe for a subsistence wage and freezing your cockles off for half the year, not earning enough to do all the good stuff with a family of 4.
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Louisdf



Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delphian-domine wrote:
It's not impossible (for instance, I'm looking for a teacher now, and free nursery care is part of the deal for all employees...) - but the salary is on a par with Polish public schools. That means between 2000-4000zl a month. The problem is that even if you got the top end of that, you'd be looking at expenses of around 50-60% of your salary before you even consider anything else. Louisdf isn't quite right - there are spaces in public nurseries (the situation isn't quite as dire as many people make it out to be - the real issue is in 0-3 "zlobek" type places). Your wife isn't a problem - you have a right to be with your family, and if you get a residence/work permit, then they have a right to join you. But consider that you would need resident permits for all your family, which are something like 350zl a shot. Let's say you get 4000zl a month - then you've just spent your first month salary on residence permits and expenses.

Even if there are free spaces, priority would be given to Poles who are unemployed or who have low incomes (2000zl or less). Not foreigners!
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1600
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject: Louse Reply with quote

Delph recruits people don't forget that. I think teaching here is a-enjoyable but b-financial suicide unless you are one of the very, very few who have got lucky and by that I mean a-married well b-got given a place to live or helped out by the family or c-got one of the incredibly rare well-paid jobs.

Working more to earn more is not getting lucky in my book. I don't believe for one second that someone teaching 40 hours a week does it well or has much time to do anything other than work, plan, copy and run around all day.

No thanks.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11496
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There are two ways: either your own business (in-company courses) or employment contract at a university or similar institutions


OP hasn't got the local connections or language skills to get direct in-company courses, or the qualifications for university jobs.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 672

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louisdf wrote:
Even if there are free spaces, priority would be given to Poles who are unemployed or who have low incomes (2000zl or less). Not foreigners!
Sorry, but that's simply not true. Unemployed people or those on low incomes have no priority - the only priority is given to single parents. I know quite a few non-Poles who have children in Polish public nurseries - it's nothing exceptional. Like I said, the real issue is with provision of 0-3 care - the requirements are so ridiculous that most people would never consider opening one, and the lack of private "zlobek" type places is why public ones are massively oversubscribed. .
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AussieGus



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again guys.

Now I'm thoroughly depressed with no apparent way out. I'm stuck in a dead end, menial and demeaning job in Australia, all I can get in the lucky country, dreaming of being able to teach again. I'm lucky to even have a job at all, that's how bad things are here in Aus. Everyone wants to live here and Aussies are given no special treatment so I have to compete with waves of recent immigrants with superior work ethic even for a mindless job I don't even want..........

Living in China would be a big risk. The pay is low and its essentially still a third world country in many ways. It seems that for someone with my credentials and experience Korea would be the only feasible option. Good pay and a relatively safe, developed country. Its not an option, though. I wouldn't take my Eurasian kids anywhere near that fascist, xenophobic hellhole.

Any other ideas would be appreciated. I think everywhere in the ME wants an MA. Where could I go with an unrelated BA, TESOL and 7 years Asian esl experience that isn't Asia and would provide my family with a reasonable standard of living?

Cheers,
Gus
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11496
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not Europe, unfortunately.

Maybe expand your search to Latin America? I have no idea if conditions there would work for you, but it's not Asia anyway....
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