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How hard is it *REALLY to get a job?

 
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Mozilla



Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:43 pm    Post subject: How hard is it *REALLY to get a job? Reply with quote

The topic says it all. I am getting 100 different answers for every country.
I am primarily interested in Japan, Korea, and China. On the one hand I hear people say--"just show up and you'll make TONS" on the other hand I hear "it's all a scam!! don't even try it!!!"
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am getting 100 different answers for every country.


Well, different countries have different requirements. No surprise here.

Quote:
I am primarily interested in Japan, Korea, and China.


Ok, now you're giving us something to work with. Still, these three countries have different requirements.

Quote:
On the one hand I hear people say--"just show up and you'll make TONS" on the other hand I hear "it's all a scam!! don't even try it!!!"


Depends on where you go that that advice applies. Now, before people start giving you advice, just exactly what kind of teaching job are you looking for, and what are your qualifications & nationality? All of these are important in terms of what visa you need (or are eligible for), and what kind of job you can realistically apply for.

Also, just showing up in Japan is an expensive venture. Unless you come here with US$4000 or so in hand, you're going to be in trouble fairly quickly. And, in all 3 of those countries, it depends on where you show up that makes survival easy, medium, or difficult. (I'm talking about which city.)
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Mozilla



Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Depends on where you go that that advice applies. Now, before people start giving you advice, just exactly what kind of teaching job are you looking for, and what are your qualifications & nationality? All of these are important in terms of what visa you need (or are eligible for), and what kind of job you can realistically apply for.

Also, just showing up in Japan is an expensive venture. Unless you come here with US$4000 or so in hand, you're going to be in trouble fairly quickly. And, in all 3 of those countries, it depends on where you show up that makes survival easy, medium, or difficult. (I'm talking about which city.)




Ok, I am getting an MS in engineering (computer) and I want to teach english--ANYWHERE, preferably in Japan. I just want a job that pays the rent. I am an asia-american, a US citizen to be exact. Is there a particular city where I will have the greatest chance for luck?
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just want a job that pays the rent.


Well, they ALL do that! You should familiarize yourself with the different kinds of jobs that are out there.

Look at this page for a description of job types.
http://www.gaijinpot.com/c_ed.php

This one describes teaching jobs and gives some salary info.
http://www.eltnews.com/guides/teaching/index.shtml

These describe the JET programme.
www.jetprogramme.org
http://www.eltnews.com/guides/jet/index.shtml

Assuming that you already have a bachelor's degree, but in some field related to computers or engineering, I would strongly suggest looking into some kind of training/certification for teaching English. Being a native English speaker isn't always the only prerequisite for knowing how to teach it.

For job listings, take a look at the following sites.
www.eslcafe.com
www.eltnews.com
www.gaijinpot.com
www.ohayosensei.com
www.jobsinjapan.com
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bnix



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:41 pm    Post subject: Run That By Me Again Reply with quote

Let's get this straight...you are getting an MS in engineering(computer) and you WANT TO TEACH ENGLISH OVERSEAS?WHY?Of course,it is your business,not mine,but is the job market really that bad for engineering?(I really do not know myself,so tell us,is it really that bad that you are contemplating teaching English overseas?)

Most jobs teaching English overseas are not going to pay you anything like what you would make as an engineer.Your business of course,not mine...but... Do not expect to make "tons" of money in most TESOL jobs.I do not know what you consider "tons"...but most teaching jobs do not pay on a par with engineering jobs...

No,it is not"all a scam"...there are some decent,legit jobs....but then there ARE also a lot of scams in this business.It is generally a very shaky business,,,full of crooks,flybynights,scams....and a relatively few,decent,legit jobs...although even most of the decent jobs will not pay you "tons" of money.I do not know who you have been talking to.Maybe you have been hearing about some of the teachers in Asia who teach illegal private lessons(some of the teachers in this business are scamsters,too)

Frankly,before you take the leap into this business,i suggest you think it over carefully,and review your other options.Teaching overseas is usually not like having a teaching job in your home country.

Good luck.Be careful. Smile
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Mozilla



Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: Run That By Me Again Reply with quote

thanks for the help glenski. Mucho appreciated!


bnix wrote:
Let's get this straight...you are getting an MS in engineering(computer) and you WANT TO TEACH ENGLISH OVERSEAS?WHY?Of course,it is your business,not mine,but is the job market really that bad for engineering?(I really do not know myself,so tell us,is it really that bad that you are contemplating teaching English overseas?)


Well, surrounded by pimply faced geeks that want to impress everyone by how smart they are, dealing with dipshit managers that can't tell the difference between a mouse and a keyboard, working the 60+ hours a week with little or no overtime...gee what's not to like???


Wink
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Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I understand you well, you expect to make enough, or even more, money, and enjoy your job here, right?
As for making money, I refer you to my piece entitled "It's money or your life, mate".
But as for avoiding those pimply-faced geeks, I am not sure you are going to fare any better! Yes, we never work 60 hours a week. Putting in 5 hours a day is pretty close to what I can accept. Teaching drains you emotionally and intellectually. Don't forget - you are in charge of 40 people in one room, and not everybody likes to be your student. Learning English is a means to an end, though most CHinese students have hardly any clue about the usefulness of English! They simply think it is going to raise their salary. They don't expect to have to use it competently and in a manner that native English speakers want him to use it. They are prepared to do all kinds of chit-chat but hardly ever a serious, interesting discussion.
Let alone improving their English!.

Attrition is rather high. Many expats don't stay for the full term with the same employer! Management styles of Chinese operators also add extra pressure!
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cafebleu



Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 404

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mozilla, you have had some useful replies but I`ll add my 2 cents` worth.

You could work in Japan but keep some things in mind. In some parts of Japan, it is becoming harder to get a decent job unless you want to work for the chain schools. In Kyushu, even part time work requires some serious qualifications - schools are becoming more selective. Of course there are the big chain schools - Nova will take would be teachers who have a four year degree.

But do you really want to work for Nova? If that is the only way you can get employed from outside Japan then go for it. Or go for Aeon or Geos. But avoid Interac (the Mormon Church school which does not pay on time or properly), Shane and some other schools whose names I can email you when I get the time.

I was lucky - I ended up teaching for a small eikaiwa where I don`t get perks such as subsidised accommodation, rent and I had to pay my own key money. But I have always been treated fairly, paid on time, and been respected.

These kind of small schools don`t tend to look for their teachers outside of Japan - you have to contact them cold by looking in directories such as NTT Townpages. But I must stress that I was lucky. It was pure coincidence the school was looking for a teacher at the same time I was mailing my cv to schools I had looked up in NTT Townpages from my home country.

And keep in mind that a number of schools have folded over the past year or so due to the economy and the fact that small schools rely on word of mouth because they cannot afford expensive advertising. I have heard many bad things about the chain schools (but it depends on which branch you work at) yet they keep getting customers who pay a fortune because the chain schools have the full color advertising and big budgets to sell their sometimes inferior teaching. What they don`t tell you is that the student attrition rate is very high at Nova, Geos, Aeon, etc.

However, maybe Tokyo is the place for you. All the foreigners I have talked to told me that there were so many more opportunities in Tokyo and the Kanto region than there are in Kyushu, which is south west Japan (although to me it is southern Japan).

If you are Asian looking, however, be prepared to hit a brick wall at some branches of the chain schools as well as some other schools. Many parents demand and get typical white foreigner type teachers. Even the adults may want `Hakujin` as teachers. Some schools are trying to employ more racially diverse teachers but honestly in some cases a teacher is better off being black as among young Japanese, a black person is seen as cool.

But don`t let that discourage you. My boss did not want a photograph - he wanted a decent teacher. Supposedly I look typically Anglo Saxon although my ancestry is French, German, Irish, Welsh, Scottish, Danish, and these countries` peoples definitely do not consider themselves Anglo Saxon.

You can get a job teaching English in Japan but I recommend Tokyo and the Kanto region which is more used to seeing foreigners, including Asian foreigners. It is also where most of the jobs are. If you stay in Japan and get tired of Tokyo, you can go somewhere else.

Best wishes and if you have any more questions feel free!
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