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China Internship Scam + Wrong Visa = Jail & Deportation
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Quite



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:47 am    Post subject: China Internship Scam + Wrong Visa = Jail & Deportation Reply with quote

There is a lot of confusion about what visa is required for doing an internship in China. Not knowing will cost you an embarrassing arrest, a $2,000 fine, and then deportation with a 3 year reentry ban.

http://www.realscam.com/f8/gi2c-china-internship-scams-can-get-you-jailed-deported-3991/

According to Chinese law (as of September/2013) it is illegal for foreigners to do a mainland China internship UNLESS...

a) You are enrolled in accredited university and registered as an exchange student.

b) You are a "registered delegate" of a registered foundation, museum, NGO, or NPO.

c) You are a musician, artist, actor, dancer, or performer in a government-approved public performance (ie A symphony orchestra, doing a public art exhibition, or part of some dance troupe like Riverdance)

So IF you fall into one of these three groups you need to have a q1, Z, or M visa to legally do an internship. Also no internship in China can be unpaid any longer unless you are a Chinese university student, and by law "No internship can exceed 90 executive days".

About a dozen dodgy private internship companies are selling pricey internships and don't care about what visa you use so long as they get paid. There is no need to pay for a China internship when you can get one free directly from the Fortune 500 and MNC companies that sponsor them for FREE (except your air fare). See this link here... http://chinainternshipreviews.wordpress.com for the best-rated ones.

P.S. Hong Kong internships are a lot less restrictive and actually pay real money!
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Quite



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:56 am    Post subject: More about China internships... Reply with quote

This may also be something to consider about ANY China internships:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/06/do-unpaid-internships-lead-to-jobs-not-for-college-students/276959/
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Son of Bud Powell



Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 179
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So IF you fall into one of these three groups you need to have a q1, Z, or M visa to legally do an internship. Also no internship in China can be unpaid any longer unless you are a Chinese university student, and by law "No internship can exceed 90 executive days".

So which one? This not at all helpful.
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Quite



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son of Bud Powell wrote:
So IF you fall into one of these three groups you need to have a q1, Z, or M visa to legally do an internship. Also no internship in China can be unpaid any longer unless you are a Chinese university student, and by law "No internship can exceed 90 executive days".

So which one? This not at all helpful.


According to my visa agent...

Q1 is used by registered exchange students

M is used by "delegates" of a registered cultural foundations, NGOs, charities, and performers.

Z visas are for interns who have guaranteed employment upon the completion of their internship training period.

Like everything in China, you have to hunt this stuff down in English. Now I have yet another incentive to learn Chinese. Did you ever get the feeling that the Chinese want us to know as little as possible while we are here?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11448
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite wrote:
This may also be something to consider about ANY China internships:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/06/do-unpaid-internships-lead-to-jobs-not-for-college-students/276959/

How so? How are you relating the situation of Americans interning with companies in the US to foreigners avoiding deportation from China while trying to get an internship at a Chinese company? Please elaborate because I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't see the relevance of the US article you referenced to what's happening in another culture and country on the other side of the planet.
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tlkdmc



Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it takes little to know brains to not fall for these so-called scams. I mean, if you're not capable of reading the visa rules and regulations on your own then you deserve to be jailed and/or deported. Just because some organization that wants your money tells you something and you believe them without doing independent research - such as OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT pages and rules/regs/faq, etc. then you deserve it.
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Quite



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do a little homework and google "China Internship Scams" and you will see that less than 5% of China interns even get job offers and most of them are with local Chinese companies NOT Fortune 500 companies or MNCs like these companies advertise. Look what happened to this guy...

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/world/homeless-month-us-interns-china-learn-reset-expectations

There are more victims telling their stories here;

http://eslwatch.info/forum/china/117-fraud-warning-gi2c-and-other-china-job-internship-scams-beware-people.html

At least in the West they have a more realistic chance of getting a real job and not just fleeced or deported as I explained in the OP.
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tlkdmc



Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We live in a totally different world today than 10 or 20 years ago. When I was in professional school in the early 90's, our school had TWO computers for all student use. There were two computers with Word Perfect in the library and it had no internal storage, you had to you 5 1/4 inch floppies. Let me restate, there were 3 computers. The other (3rd) computer was only for scanning your disk for viruses before using one of the other two computers for typing documents. There was no internet. If you wanted to research, you simply used the library like it was done for decades before.

Today you have the internet. You can research anything. With the moronic advent of social media and blogs you can find out what time people fart and what situations they were in when in China.

Dictionaries existed long before the internet was created. Internship, employment, and other words are clearly defined. It takes no forethought, except for today's' 20-30 y/o generation who are too stupid to use their own brains and become smart or informed the difference in visas. A work visa is a work visa, a visitor visa is a visitor visa, a business visa is a business visa. Finding an answer to what is allowed or which visa is required for an internship is nearly instantaneous.

A massive percentage of the population in the west has criminal records of one sort or another (look it up) and it is clear that some 25 year old with a university degree that now begs and cries that he can't pay back his loans and now can't find a job at all (let alone McDonald's) now wants to demand that China takes them in and give them everything their little hearts desire because they are white. It's gotten pathetic to say the least.

Anyone in the west who chooses to get up and move to a foreign country such as China, and believe you me, China is about as foreign as it gets, needs to have the brains to research things before going there/here. Blogs, social media, government sites, authorization lists, and the like all tell you what to do and not do. COMMON SENSE tells you what is right and wrong. Anyone who falls for these so-called scams simply deserves what they get. If they are so stupid to fall for these things then it's their own fault(s) for not researching and using common sense. Everyone out there is still, yet even today, looking for the quick and easy way and they think they some paid internship (that they pay) is the way to go. It is moronic to think that YOU should pay someone to do an INTERNSHIP AT THEIR business. That fact alone is the only red-flag you need to not do it.

All those who get caught up in these things do not deserve the attention of the news, media, internet, embassy, or friends crying on their behalf.

It's not like moving 20 miles to a new city in the U.S. We are talking about moving to a communist country, evolving, filled with criminal activity, "mafia" organizations rampant, violent crime on the rise, governmental corruption, and more -- ALL ON THE NEWS AND IN ALL FORMS OF MEDIA.

If you can't research potential life in China before going there - TOUGH, and I don't want to hear or see anything about it. I didn't go to China on whim. I didn't just get on a plane. I didn't just go there expecting Chinese people to speak English. I didn't go there with the demand people serve me American food.

Get a grip. Take self-responsibility. But, as we all know, Society has eroded into crap and nobody takes any stance except the "but I didn't know" when it the truth is, they are too stupid, uneducated, lazy, and self-centered to do the research and be prepared.

Drugs, crime, addiction, sexual de-evolution, psychiatric disorders ... this is what comes here.

Common Sense. It has entirely disappeared in less than 20 years.

I'd love to be involved in the removal of these people from the country and their own homes.

I follows the rules of adulthood, responsibility, growth, evolution, personal pride, and so on. Why should I be subject to those that can't do math without a calculator, can't spell without auto-checker, can't talk to a human face-to-face as opposed to social media, believe that a 3 year-old pointing a finger like a gun playing with friends should be arrested, or...

This is simply all the fault of the people being "fleeced" and their parents.

I know how to be responsible. Do you?


Last edited by tlkdmc on Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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tlkdmc



Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite wrote:
Do a little homework and google "China Internship Scams" and you will see that less than 5% of China interns even get job offers and most of them are with local Chinese companies NOT Fortune 500 companies or MNCs like these companies advertise. Look what happened to this guy...

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/world/homeless-month-us-interns-china-learn-reset-expectations

There are more victims telling their stories here;

http://eslwatch.info/forum/china/117-fraud-warning-gi2c-and-other-china-job-internship-scams-beware-people.html

At least in the West they have a more realistic chance of getting a real job and not just fleeced or deported as I explained in the OP.


The west has few chances of being abused as stated. That is true. Of course, there are criminal enterprises that enslave (basically), but that is the massive exception to the rule. China is a truly a de-evolving country. Capitalism has opened the floodgates to all sorts of criminal and anti-social actions that allow such fraud to occur. Watchdog interference and government oversight hardly allow such things to occur in America and other places. China is nothing but a free-for-all anymore. The U.S. government needs to take a stand, more so than stated on the embassies web sites about people coming to China for non-US-employer employment.
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tlkdmc



Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite wrote:
Son of Bud Powell wrote:
So IF you fall into one of these three groups you need to have a q1, Z, or M visa to legally do an internship. Also no internship in China can be unpaid any longer unless you are a Chinese university student, and by law "No internship can exceed 90 executive days".

So which one? This not at all helpful.


According to my visa agent...

Q1 is used by registered exchange students

M is used by "delegates" of a registered cultural foundations, NGOs, charities, and performers.

Z visas are for interns who have guaranteed employment upon the completion of their internship training period.

Like everything in China, you have to hunt this stuff down in English. Now I have yet another incentive to learn Chinese. Did you ever get the feeling that the Chinese want us to know as little as possible while we are here?


This is another good example... "my visa agent"

What is so difficult about you going to the Chinese government, the PSB web sites yourself and finding out what the rules are? It hasn't occurred to you (common sense) that you are paying someone to do work for you and they are working on a bias to take your money? What is so difficult about learning the rules yourself from official sources and, IF NECESSARY, using an agent to do the footwork only?

I don't get it. It nearly brings tears to my eyes - sad or humorous?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11448
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite wrote:
Do a little homework and google "China Internship Scams" and you will see that less than 5% of China interns even get job offers and most of them are with local Chinese companies NOT Fortune 500 companies or MNCs like these companies advertise.
....

At least in the West they have a more realistic chance of getting a real job and not just fleeced or deported as I explained in the OP.

That's a very weak explanation to my questions. And frankly, I'm not interested in doing any "homework" by looking at amateurish, anonymous websites driveling ad nauseam about scams. Like many others within these forums, I have enough common sense not to fall for such nonsense regardless of which country I choose to work in. As the saying goes, "Trust but verify..." and verify and verify. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, there will also always be those who blindly (and stupidly) ignore the warnings and thus, find themselves in a bad situation. Stupid is as stupid does.

Time to give this regurgitated topic a permanent rest.
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tlkdmc



Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Common Sense.
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asiannationmc



Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonder how many of those stateside internships would address these regs.


The following six standards* must be met in order to establish that an intern qualifies to work unpaid:

Quote:
1. The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar training which would be given in an educational environment;

2. The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern;

3. The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff;

4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded;

5. The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship; and

6. The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.

(*U.S. Department of Labor Wage and Hour Division, Fact Sheet #71: Internships Under The Fair Labor Standards Act, April 2010)
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11448
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asiannationmc wrote:
Wonder how many of those stateside internships would address these regs.

You should have added (and cited) the rest of the US Department of Labor's explanation about what constitutes an unpaid internship in the US:

Quote:
Internships in the “for-profit” private sector will most often be viewed as employment, unless the test relating to trainees is met. Interns in the “for-profit” private sector who qualify as employees rather than trainees typically must be paid at least the minimum wage and overtime compensation for hours worked over forty in a workweek.
....

If all of the (six factors) are met, an employment relationship does not exist under the FLSA, and the Act’s minimum wage and overtime provisions do not apply to the intern. This exclusion from the definition of employment is necessarily quite narrow because the FLSA’s definition of “employ” is very broad.
Source: http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm

Years ago, I was an unpaid intern for a couple of months during the senior year of my undergrad program. Each of those 6 criteria items (especially #6) fit my situation, which was educational (e.g., I minimally participated and mostly observed and asked questions for my learning benefit).

Anyway, I'm not sure why you brought up the DOL's regs; US legislation on internship programs in the States has no bearing on internships at businesses/organizations elsewhere in the world, including China.
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asiannationmc



Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Anyway, I'm not sure why you brought up the DOL's regs; US legislation on internship programs in the States has no bearing on internships at businesses/organizations elsewhere in the world, including China.


Then why did u bother posting and completing the explanation nomad soul.

You can try and find the answers here....


http://lawandborder.com/faq-new-china-visa-law/#14_What_work_authorization_and_internship_opportunities_are_available_to_foreign_students_with_residence_certificates_for_study
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