Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Why do you guys do it?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Thailand
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
AKChina



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

currentaffairs wrote:
Yes and no. Bunching 14 hours of university lessons into three days is not particularly good for the teacher or the students other than from a financial perspective. Of course doable, though.

Yes, the university lifestyle is good but when you start adding in the 'extra work' like privates, second or third jobs, then it becomes something different.

I guess it really depends how flexible you are and what you are willing to accept in the end. It does sound like you can make a fair bit extra in China if you are willing to work more.


Well it comes to a couple of 90 minute classes a day (90 mins = 2 teaching hours) and three 90 minute classes on the third day. Not really excessive. Compare that to your Thai government school wanting 25 hours of contact time (i.e. 5 hours a day). It's about the same in terms of teaching hours per day (except with uni you get more time off).

If you take the uni lifestyle alone, you're already on more than you are in Thailand for 1/3 of the workload, by virtue of the fact you'll have your apartment (and likely utilities) paid for by the uni. Even if one never lifted a finger outside class, that's a whole lot more free time you're going to have vs working in Thailand.

I totally understand wanting to be in Thailand for the nightlife and the women. Booze and women is the only reason I bother going to work at all. Laughing But if your work can't provide you with the cash to enjoy all this (Dating is relatively expensive, nightclubs are expensive, buying hookers is pretty cheap in an international sense but still beyond a typical ESL salary) then you might as well work elsewhere and holiday in Thailand.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LifterMan



Joined: 26 Nov 2013
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKChina wrote:

With regards to lifestyle, wouldn't you say working half the hours for twice the pay would equate to a better lifestyle? Let's not act like money and working hours have no effect on quality of life - they're both huge when determining such things.

If you want to play the field with Thai women, well that requires money. Going out socialising, dating, going to nightclubs etc all requires cash. And there's available women in Vietnam and China too.


The money part is not a deal breaker. Learning to free yourself of attachments and living a simple life is what equates to a better lifestyle. I don't need to go around blowing money at tourist bars and paying for guided tours. I can go on hikes without a guide for free and buy beer at the supermarket. I can live in a simple apartment, I don't mind.

It is not expensive to date. If a woman requires I provide a particular standard budget for dating venues and spending time with her, then I don't want to be with her. Learn to date like an average local. Take your girl out to side shops and learn to manage your consumption.

40k is more than enough to live and save. While China/Vietnam pay significantly more, they are lacking one very important thing.......they are not Thailand!!! Let me ask you a question: if you won the lottery right now, where would you move to? Those who are right where they want to be, in many ways, are richer than those with unfilled desires.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AKChina



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LifterMan wrote:
AKChina wrote:

With regards to lifestyle, wouldn't you say working half the hours for twice the pay would equate to a better lifestyle? Let's not act like money and working hours have no effect on quality of life - they're both huge when determining such things.

If you want to play the field with Thai women, well that requires money. Going out socialising, dating, going to nightclubs etc all requires cash. And there's available women in Vietnam and China too.


The money part is not a deal breaker. Learning to free yourself of attachments and living a simple life is what equates to a better lifestyle. I don't need to go around blowing money at tourist bars and paying for guided tours. I can go on hikes without a guide for free and buy beer at the supermarket. I can live in a simple apartment, I don't mind.

It is not expensive to date. If a woman requires I provide a particular standard budget for dating venues and spending time with her, then I don't want to be with her. Learn to date like an average local. Take your girl out to side shops and learn to manage your consumption.

40k is more than enough to live and save. While China/Vietnam pay significantly more, they are lacking one very important thing.......they are not Thailand!!! Let me ask you a question: if you won the lottery right now, where would you move to? Those who are right where they want to be, in many ways, are richer than those with unfilled desires.


A 'simple' life is just another way of saying 'a poor life'. When your phone breaks down and you're having to fork out 25,000 baht for a new one, and that's the budget smashed for the month...that aint living. And before someone pops up to say it, no, having a smartphone is not living a life of 'excess' by any means...most Thais have them.

Alcohol in Thailand isn't just expensive at 'tourist bars'. It's expensive at all late night destinations full stop.

Let's talk about dating. Let's say we go to Pizza Company for dinner, which isn't really a high end place by any means. That'll be 2*300 baht for pizzas, then maybe 100 each for drinks and/or a starter. So 800 baht, not a huge amount you might say, but it is when you're only earning 30,000 a month and have to spend 10,000 of that on rent/bills/internet. It's actually a fairly big expense. And heaven forbid you ever fancy eating at an actual nice restaurant or buying a steak...that'll be your weekly food budget gone.

Yeah you can eat 40 baht noodle meals but not many girls are going to be impressed with that (and that's not an attack on Thai women...try taking a girl back in your home country to McDonalds for a date or other super-low budget place and see how far you get). Not many girls are never going to want a night out on the town. And hell, that life just plain sucks! Eating Thai food every day and never being able to do anything while slaving away for 40 hours a week and flag duty.

If I won the lottery right now I'd move to Pattaya and spend the rest of my life nailing hookers and drinking beer. I'd never teach another class anywhere in any country ever again. But your question is an irrelevant one - ESL teachers in Thailand certainly haven't won any lottery, they're scraping by day to day. The kind of spending required to make Thailand a fantastic place is well beyond an ESL teaching salary. I'd certainly rather work 2x less hours in Vietnam for more pay. I'd certainly take 1/3rd of the hours in China for more pay than Thailand too. It's not like it totally destroys either country lifestyle wise...we're not talking about the difference between Thailand and Saudi Arabia here, are we?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hdeth



Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKChina wrote:
LifterMan wrote:
AKChina wrote:

If you want to play the field with Thai women, well that requires money. Going out socialising, dating, going to nightclubs etc all requires cash. And there's available women in Vietnam and China too.


The money part is not a deal breaker. Learning to free yourself of attachments and living a simple life is what equates to a better lifestyle. I don't need to go around blowing money at tourist bars and paying for guided tours. I can go on hikes without a guide for free and buy beer at the supermarket. I can live in a simple apartment, I don't mind.

It is not expensive to date. If a woman requires I provide a particular standard budget for dating venues and spending time with her, then I don't want to be with her. Learn to date like an average local. Take your girl out to side shops and learn to manage your consumption.

40k is more than enough to live and save. While China/Vietnam pay significantly more, they are lacking one very important thing.......they are not Thailand!!! Let me ask you a question: if you won the lottery right now, where would you move to? Those who are right where they want to be, in many ways, are richer than those with unfilled desires.


A 'simple' life is just another way of saying 'a poor life'. When your phone breaks down and you're having to fork out 25,000 baht for a new one, and that's the budget smashed for the month...that aint living. And before someone pops up to say it, no, having a smartphone is not living a life of 'excess' by any means...most Thais have them.

Alcohol in Thailand isn't just expensive at 'tourist bars'. It's expensive at all late night destinations full stop.

Let's talk about dating. Let's say we go to Pizza Company for dinner, which isn't really a high end place by any means. That'll be 2*300 baht for pizzas, then maybe 100 each for drinks and/or a starter. So 800 baht, not a huge amount you might say, but it is when you're only earning 30,000 a month and have to spend 10,000 of that on rent/bills/internet. It's actually a fairly big expense. And heaven forbid you ever fancy eating at an actual nice restaurant or buying a steak...that'll be your weekly food budget gone.

Yeah you can eat 40 baht noodle meals but not many girls are going to be impressed with that (and that's not an attack on Thai women...try taking a girl back in your home country to McDonalds for a date or other super-low budget place and see how far you get). Not many girls are never going to want a night out on the town. And hell, that life just plain sucks! Eating Thai food every day and never being able to do anything while slaving away for 40 hours a week and flag duty.

If I won the lottery right now I'd move to Pattaya and spend the rest of my life nailing hookers and drinking beer. I'd never teach another class anywhere in any country ever again. But your question is an irrelevant one - ESL teachers in Thailand certainly haven't won any lottery, they're scraping by day to day. The kind of spending required to make Thailand a fantastic place is well beyond an ESL teaching salary. I'd certainly rather work 2x less hours in Vietnam for more pay. I'd certainly take 1/3rd of the hours in China for more pay than Thailand too. It's not like it totally destroys either country lifestyle wise...we're not talking about the difference between Thailand and Saudi Arabia here, are we?


You're making me feel blessed to have my girlfriend, thank you for that.

We didn't eat out on our first date, just walked in a park and talked...and she loves street food.

She's Chinese, so I guess that's another mark for China.

I agree with Lifterman to some extent, but the pay in Thailand is just too low. I lived fine on the ~$1,000 USD per month + housing I made my first year in China, but that's not something you can do long-term. It's just not that fun. You'll eventually get tired of vacation in SEA and want to take a (much more expensive) trip to someplace in Europe. Or buy a new computer/phone/whatever.

It's about being able to afford variety in your diet, your life, your travels, and so on. I don't need money to blow on bars or clubs but I do need some money to treat myself to a luxury now and then, save for the future, and so on. You can't do that on 30-40k baht. Just saving for retirement would wipe out your paycheck. I've saved about $10k USD so far this year for rainy days and retirement and it doesn't feel like much. How many tens of millions of baht do you need to retire?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AKChina



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hdeth wrote:


You're making me feel blessed to have my girlfriend, thank you for that.

We didn't eat out on our first date, just walked in a park and talked...and she loves street food.

She's Chinese, so I guess that's another mark for China.

I agree with Lifterman to some extent, but the pay in Thailand is just too low. I lived fine on the ~$1,000 USD per month + housing I made my first year in China, but that's not something you can do long-term. It's just not that fun. You'll eventually get tired of vacation in SEA and want to take a (much more expensive) trip to someplace in Europe. Or buy a new computer/phone/whatever.

It's about being able to afford variety in your diet, your life, your travels, and so on. I don't need money to blow on bars or clubs but I do need some money to treat myself to a luxury now and then, save for the future, and so on. You can't do that on 30-40k baht. Just saving for retirement would wipe out your paycheck. I've saved about $10k USD so far this year for rainy days and retirement and it doesn't feel like much. How many tens of millions of baht do you need to retire?


Amen to this.

ESL teachers in Thailand who don't stand to inherit a load of money from their parents will never be able to retire. And eating noodle soup every day and working 40 hours a week is a life of misery.

In Vietnam, I've never felt like I am worked to the bone. I don't live it up super large, but I can certainly afford a trip home each year to see friends and family, vacation in Thailand (with money to spend!) and still bank a fair chunk for my retirement fund. If I need a new computer, a new phone, a new stereo system etc...I buy them, it's no big deal, it certainly doesn't leave me penniless for the month. In Thailand it would.

It's not just about the low salaries, but they expect a full working week for it too. Unis in China don't pay much better, but the advantages of the apartment and 12-16 hours a week make the hourly rate absolutely crush Thailand. Meas you can easily take on some other classes in the evenings or whatever to boost your salary and still have a decent amount of freetime. Yeah in Thailand you can work after-school too, but the hourly rate SUCKS (500 baht an hour average) and you'll have no life whatsoever after putting in 40 hours a week at your slave camp...erm, school.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 911

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much a one sided view from the bottom of the glass ceiling....
Why would anyone stay at an entry level job until retirement?

For a gap year, Thailand is what it is.
For any longer... get some qualifications and get out of 30k jobs.

Thailand looks pretty good from the upside of 100K + benefits (and I still only have a 40 hour work week (just like people at home)).

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AKChina



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

suphanburi wrote:
Pretty much a one sided view from the bottom of the glass ceiling....
Why would anyone stay at an entry level job until retirement?

For a gap year, Thailand is what it is.
For any longer... get some qualifications and get out of 30k jobs.

Thailand looks pretty good from the upside of 100K + benefits (and I still only have a 40 hour work week (just like people at home)).

.


You're missing the point which is that 100k takes higher level qualifications to get. With higher level qualifications, you could earn even more than 100k elsewhere. But then we're not talking about teaching ESL, we're talking about real teaching of subject matter and/or with a teachers licence in an international school.

Comparing those with high qualifications vs those working in TEFL in other countries is not comparing apples with apples. Thailand pays the bottom end of the scale for those with higher qualifications too (relative to other countries). It pays the bottom end of the scale for everyone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LifterMan



Joined: 26 Nov 2013
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="AKChina"]
LifterMan wrote:

A 'simple' life is just another way of saying 'a poor life'. When your phone breaks down and you're having to fork out 25,000 baht for a new one, and that's the budget smashed for the month...that aint living. And before someone pops up to say it, no, having a smartphone is not living a life of 'excess' by any means...most Thais have them.

Alcohol in Thailand isn't just expensive at 'tourist bars'. It's expensive at all late night destinations full stop.

Let's talk about dating. Let's say we go to Pizza Company for dinner, which isn't really a high end place by any means. That'll be 2*300 baht for pizzas, then maybe 100 each for drinks and/or a starter. So 800 baht, not a huge amount you might say, but it is when you're only earning 30,000 a month and have to spend 10,000 of that on rent/bills/internet. It's actually a fairly big expense. And heaven forbid you ever fancy eating at an actual nice restaurant or buying a steak...that'll be your weekly food budget gone.

Yeah you can eat 40 baht noodle meals but not many girls are going to be impressed with that (and that's not an attack on Thai women...try taking a girl back in your home country to McDonalds for a date or other super-low budget place and see how far you get). Not many girls are never going to want a night out on the town. And hell, that life just plain sucks! Eating Thai food every day and never being able to do anything while slaving away for 40 hours a week and flag duty.

If I won the lottery right now I'd move to Pattaya and spend the rest of my life nailing hookers and drinking beer. I'd never teach another class anywhere in any country ever again. But your question is an irrelevant one - ESL teachers in Thailand certainly haven't won any lottery, they're scraping by day to day. The kind of spending required to make Thailand a fantastic place is well beyond an ESL teaching salary. I'd certainly rather work 2x less hours in Vietnam for more pay. I'd certainly take 1/3rd of the hours in China for more pay than Thailand too. It's not like it totally destroys either country lifestyle wise...we're not talking about the difference between Thailand and Saudi Arabia here, are we?



No....a simple life is one in which I don't let attachments control me. It has nothing to do with my salary. I have never purchased a $25,000 phone and never will. Even when I was making big bucks years ago in the states, I lived a similar lifestyle. I live the life I want, not the one that I'm forced into due to financial constraints.

I do eat out at restaurants occasionally, but I generally prefer to cook my own food for health reasons, not due to budget. It just so happens, cooking my own food is the cheapest option. Generally, the girls I have dated like that I am a health conscious person as it enhances me both physically and mentally. They are always impressed when I cook for them.

If I were in this for the money, I certainly wouldn't have become a teacher. I understand I may be in the minority when I say this, but I truly enjoy my job as a teacher and am right where I want to be. There is nothing wrong with the lifestyle of chasing money, but you are misguided in your understanding because you assume that everyone equates happiness with giant paychecks that leaves one with excessive savings.

Your initial question was: Why do you guys do it?.....We all have our own personal reasons, but I do it because it is where I want to be. I don't live in fear of retirement and old age. I don't have a fear of failure, rather I am empowered by my own confidence to achieve whatever I choose. If one day I get old and want to live in a penthouse and drive a corvette I will do so, but if I want to live in a hut in Cambodia I will do that also. I LIVE LIFE IN THE MOMENT AND MAN IS IT GREAT.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EFL Educator



Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 988
Location: Cape Town

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many of us are HAPPY in the Land Of Smiles....I am HAPPY with my life an an EFL Educator and teacher here...and with my pension too....but sometimes I do miss the Canadian weather! Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hdeth



Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LifterMan wrote:


If I were in this for the money, I certainly wouldn't have become a teacher. I understand I may be in the minority when I say this, but I truly enjoy my job as a teacher and am right where I want to be. There is nothing wrong with the lifestyle of chasing money, but you are misguided in your understanding because you assume that everyone equates happiness with giant paychecks that leaves one with excessive savings.

Your initial question was: Why do you guys do it?.....We all have our own personal reasons, but I do it because it is where I want to be. I don't live in fear of retirement and old age. I don't have a fear of failure, rather I am empowered by my own confidence to achieve whatever I choose. If one day I get old and want to live in a penthouse and drive a corvette I will do so, but if I want to live in a hut in Cambodia I will do that also. I LIVE LIFE IN THE MOMENT AND MAN IS IT GREAT.


You should, especially if you're from America. Do you know how expensive it is to live in a hut in Cambodia when you're too old to work? It's a lot more than you might think.

China has some of the cheapest food in the world. I'd be fine living in a house in the countryside, which costs almost nothing to rent. But I'd still need $500 or so per month to live a basic, comfortable life. To have $500 a month, adjusted for inflation, you have to save a crapload of money.

You don't know how old you will be when you get to the point where you can't or shouldn't work, and trust me, you will get there. For some people it might be early 50's. So think about how much you spend each month and then calculate out the costs from age 55-80 or so.

I've met some people who had a back/neck/whatever injury, arthritis, whatever and couldn't work in their 40's and 50's. They had little in savings and were basically screwed in every which way. SSD takes a long time to get on in America, sometimes years, and you would have to live in America during the application process paying massive medical bills. I never want to be in that position.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 911

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKChina wrote:
suphanburi wrote:
Pretty much a one sided view from the bottom of the glass ceiling....
Why would anyone stay at an entry level job until retirement?

For a gap year, Thailand is what it is.
For any longer... get some qualifications and get out of 30k jobs.

Thailand looks pretty good from the upside of 100K + benefits (and I still only have a 40 hour work week (just like people at home)).

.


You're missing the point which is that 100k takes higher level qualifications to get. With higher level qualifications, you could earn even more than 100k elsewhere. But then we're not talking about teaching ESL, we're talking about real teaching of subject matter and/or with a teachers licence in an international school.

Comparing those with high qualifications vs those working in TEFL in other countries is not comparing apples with apples. Thailand pays the bottom end of the scale for those with higher qualifications too (relative to other countries). It pays the bottom end of the scale for everyone.


No, I think you missed the point.

30k is OK for a gap year exercise AKA working vacation. It is an adventure on the way to going home and entering the work force.

If you are going to do it for more than a year or so then add to your personal and professional development and get above that entry level glass ceiling.

A couple years in the classroom + a CELTA gets you into 40-50k. (10k/20k per month = 120-240k per year for the sum total of spending 30k and 4 weeks of your holiday time.

A PGCEi gets you into the 60-90k range. That extra 30-60k per month (360-720k (US$10k-20k) per year) will pay off that PGCE pretty quick.

QTS (licensure/teacher certifications for our US fiends) gets you into 120k+ range. Over 1 million thb per year difference goes A VERY LONG WAY in Thailand or Vietnam, China or Taiwan.

Only a fool would make an occupation of working at 30k (and yes, there are lots of fools in Thighland.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MuscatGary



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

suphanburi wrote:
QTS (licensure/teacher certifications for our US fiends) gets you into 120k+ range. Over 1 million thb per year difference goes A VERY LONG WAY in Thailand or Vietnam, China or Taiwan..


Not all US citizens are fiends, I've met some nice ones.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SunShan



Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Why do you guys do it? Reply with quote

AKChina wrote:

What is the draw of Thailand? ... I'm not 'hating', but I can see no good reason why anyone would choose to start teaching ESL in Thailand.


"If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else."
No! You won't 'eed nothin' else
But them spicy garlic smells,
An' the sunshine an' the palm-trees an' the tinkly Temple-bells;
...
I am sick o' wastin' leather on these gritty pavin'-stones,
An' the blasted English drizzle wakes the fever in my bones;
Tho' I walks with fifty 'ousemaids outer Chelsea to the Strand,
An' they talks a lot o' lovin', but what do they understand?

Beefy face an' grubby 'and -
Law! Wot do they understand?
I've a neater, sweeter maiden in a cleaner, greener land!

~ Rudyard Kipling, 'Mandalay' (1890)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EFL Educator



Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 988
Location: Cape Town

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The Land Of Smiles" with money!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 911

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LOS is a nice place to be when you have some jingle in your jeans.

A week in an executive suite at the Centara Grande Mirage so our daughter could play in the water park was a nice treat. Only dropped 100k baht for that one.

Spending some time at the graduate school on the Chula campus and having a room at the Patumwan Princess is nice and convenient.

I like the Normandie Restaurant at the Mandarin Oriental.
Only about 12k baht for dinner with wine (4 people) but worth every satang.

I like the express/priority lanes at Suvarnabhumi airport.
The business lounges are nice too.

Yup.... the LOS with some money is a good thing and getting above that 30k glass ceiling is something to consider.

Living on instant noodles is for the college freshmen crowd.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Thailand All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China