Job Discussion Forums

[dragonpiwo]

Absolutely sound advice.

It has been in decline since the 90s. Meanwhile, Poland has become expensive.

It's a huge gamble.

[chuckMC]

It's a gamble with no chance of winning. If he "wins", he's stuck in a poor country earning a poor salary by international standards. 20 years from now he will regret making this decision. His savings will be little in terms of US dollars. He probably won't have a pension. His earnings will remain the same unless he strikes gold with a rich client. Like everyone says, wages are flat and competition higher. He will be swimming in shallow water.

[delphian-domine]

See, chuckMC, what you're missing is that you don't really know how Poland works. All you're looking at is "oh, you can possibly earn much more in the West" without even thinking about the real cost of living there.

In Poland, as long as you've got healthcare, no-one is going to attempt to hit you with huge bills, nor will you have to struggle with insurance companies that will do absolutely everything in their power to refuse to pay.

In Poland, you don't have the problem of school districts being funded entirely locally, so the level of teaching in Wielkopolskie is exactly the same as in Swiętokrzyskie.

In Poland, you don't have such massive inequalities - even so-called "bad" areas such as Praga in Warsaw are really nothing compared to the slums of America, the UK or France.

More to the point, if you actually speak Polish, you can see what's available out there. Your perceptions are entirely based upon a very limited world view with no real concept of what happens beyond your small town, let alone the whole country.

Poland is full of opportunity, but it won't come to those teaching Callan in Ciemnogród.

[Master Shake]

[dragonpiwo]

My profile was on NS.com. I advertised at 70/hour. Had about 30-40 hits. Only one was willing to come to my place and only that one was willing to pay 70/hour. I had more experience than anyone on the website. Between October 2014 and January 2015, I was in Poznan. I went to 20 interviews. All told me my 70PLN/hour was way too much. I ended up working 10 hours a week to keep busy.

Poland isn't cheap now. I'm in the UAE where electricals, jewellery, clothes, petrol, cigarettes, free medical insurance, using a phone and taxis are way cheaper than Poland. Food and beer from the shop are about the same. Only rent is high but we earn 10 times what a wage in Poland is and I have free digs and food on a camp, which is like a resort.

I have a house in Poland and the plan is to have 2 or 3 flats in the next 10 years and then retire at 55 mortgage free.

So enjoy working yourself into the grave. I only work 4 days a week and the wife and I are loving the beach life.

I must be daft.

[wojbrian]

[delphian-domine]

Dragonpiwo, tut tut...using a phone is most definitely not cheaper in the UAE. I just checked and the prices are coming in at around 300AED (which is more or less 1-1 with the PLN) for anything resembling a decent plan.

My Orange phone here is 89zl a month for unlimited calls and text messages to all networks and landlines in Poland, along with 2GB of data. Contract, of course. If I stayed on Plus, I could have the same plus unlimited LTE data, but their choice of phones is shockingly bad.

Beer as well... come on, I asked a friend in Abu Dhabi, and he said that 25-30AED is about normal.

Some stuff will obviously be much cheaper due to the lack of VAT/excise tax or subsidies such as petrol. But when you find figures such as 300AED for internet access (!) when I've got a decent 60mb cable connection for 60PLN - well... come on.

Electronics - I've just looked at phones, and they're actually slightly more expensive there.

Other things will be cheaper, sure - petrol especially. Not sure I'd quite like to drive there though...

I have a friend living out there that put it quite well - he regards the place as a fantastic place to save money for a few years, but it's a dreadful place to raise a family due to the astronomical costs of schooling. In your situation, the UAE makes perfect sense - but it might not make sense for others.

[dragonpiwo]

Beer in a shop not a hotel Delph. The i-phone 6 is half the price here.

[dragonpiwo]

Back to the op. It will be hard and money will be tight. Perhaps, not all of the time, but some/a lot of the time.

Poland is a nice place for a couple of years, especially in the summer. Ignore us lot and go and see for yourself. If it doesn't work out, go elsewhere.

[chuckMC]

There is a reason why MILLIONS of Poles go abroad. And there is a reason why there are so few foreigners in Polska.Yes there are opportunities here, but the rewards are limited due to low salaries (by international standards). Dragonpiwo, don't encourage the op to try and "suss it out." If he is not doing this for a year or two for fun and diversion then he will be unfulfilled and depressed five years from now.

As Expats, we only like to think of the positives of our host countries. We often live in big cities where we see only the glitz and glamour. But when you talk to normal people in towns and villages, you witness the harsh realities of polish life. I laughed when Dragonpiwo and Delph compared prices of their respective countries. Delph, most people in Poland only make $600 a month. In UAE, ESL teachers save a boat load of real money by the end of the year. Whereas in Poland, an ESL teacher will be lucky to save a few thousand dollars at the end of the year.

I don't know what else to say to the OP. Dude, talk to people about your plans. Talk to your parents, talk to honest people; not people who will blow smoke up your arse to make you feel good.

English teachers have a poor reputation in Poland. People will look down on you. They will ask: "what else do you do besides teaching?", or "why are you not a teacher back home?", or "why the hell do you want to live in Poland?"

These are just some of the questions that will be thrown your way. Polish people are suspicious of foreigners because Poland offers very little compared to Western countries. Low salaries, limited career advancement, below average university system, high unemployment, highly bureaucratic, and lower living standards. Poles say: "why Poland?"

When I visit Sweden, I feel like I have fast forward 50 years into the future. Everything is light years ahead of Poland. Why would you live and raise a family in such a backward country like Poland?

I don't know what else to say. My advice to the OP: Do it for a year for fun and diversion then go back home and make real money and have a real life.

[delphian-domine]

dragonpiwo - http://store.apple.com/ae/buy-iphone/iphone6 and http://store.apple.com/pl/iphone - not really half the price, but a bit cheaper. The lack of VAT is your answer there

[scottie1113]

+1

[chuckMC]

Delph, I know it makes you feel better to put me down. That's fine with me. But what I am saying is the consensus in Poland. By the way, I work in a small town but I live in Bielsko Biala, which is not some Ciemnógrod. I talk to young people here and in other cities. Yes they have energy and ambition, but many them are seriously thinking about going abroad to be able to achieve that high standard of living that Westerners enjoy. I spoke to a scientist in Bielsko and she said that her friends in Ireland enjoyed and MUCH higher standard of living. She was jealous of them. This is the reality, you can try to push it aside; that's fine with me, but this is the ugly side of Poland.

Like I said before, many Expats come to the big cities to live a dream life of partying and goofing around. They never see the ugly side of Poland. Delph, if you are happy living in Poland than that is fine with me. But I am just trying to advise newcomers on the realities of Poland. What I am saying is what they will be told by other polish people. I have met so many Poles in Warsaw, Wroclaw, Krakow, Katowice, Bielsko, and in small villages. I have experienced Poland from every level of society.

I once had a lesson at a gymnasium school in a small village. I asked the students if they planned on staying in Poland. 1/3 of the class said they wanted to work abroad. WOW, 1/3!! This is the harsh truth. The young and ambitious are always thinking of whether to stay or leave Poland. The choice they have is earning 4,000 PLN or 4,000 euros. Unfortunately, many do choose to leave. There are statistics that show that 20% of the workforce will disappear over the next 20 years.

Another thing I want to tell the OP, is about the future of his children. Does he and his wife really want to raise their kids in such a poor EU country with high unemployment and fewer opportunities than Western countries? Their kids will face the same problem that Polish youth face. They will ask themselves if they should leave Poland for higher salaries and standard of living. Being born in a rich country is a blessing. You don't have to have a great paying job to have a good material life. Life in Poland is tough in the long run.

Think hard about this, Jb1980!

[Master Shake]

Nice, comprehensive reply, delph. You spent a lot more time replying to that guy than I have the patience to.

I gotta tell you though, something about chuckMC's situation doesn't add up.

1. He's an inexperienced teacher teaching at a Callan school off in some village, yet somehow making 4000zl/month (quote a lot, considering the situation).

2. He thinks Poland is a poor 'loser' country, yet he would like to work in Wroclaw next academic year.

3. He's only been in Poland a short while, but he's build up a deep-seated resentment of the place as though he's lived there a lifetime.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear this was an alias for someone else. Perhaps another sharter doppelganger?

[chuckMC]

Yep, Shake. I am who I am. Working in a small town gives you benefit of there being no competition. I make 30zl per hour, but average around 35 lessons per week. Do the math, that's around 4k a month. I have some privates too, which boosts my income some more. By the way, I still feel poor. The prices in the electrical and clothing stores will shock you. I will you be staring at products more expensive than they are in the West. Yet, your salary will only be a fraction of a typical Western salary. Crazy, huh!!

Poland is a "loser" country in regards to the game of global economics. Its wage level is low compared to the West. Monthly wages stand at 900 USD. Poland is actually a pretty cool country; nice women, food, culture, beer, party scene, cities, nature, religiosity, family values, etc. But the money sucks here and EVERYONE knows it. As my Polish friend said, Poles love Poland, but the poor economic situation makes them contemplate leaving.