Job Discussion Forums

Sashadroogie · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:54 pm Post subject:

This, for example:

"Do you believe in the multiverse theory? You need to check which one you actually live in. The VN has hundreds of posters. Only 3 have posted in this thread. The Universe that everyone who actually work in VN have posted that I (who actually work here) know less than all of you (who have never worked here) is on your left. It sure ain't this one."

Need to be from a parallel universe to begin to parse it...

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

In some Universe (Far, Far Away), that makes perfect sense, Sasha.

esl_prof · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject:

kellrobinson · Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 33

The internet sucks, don't it.
I was pretty happy when I found this thread. But on page two the people started arguing. I skipped ahead, and they're still arguing.
Just so that I don't have to go back and read through the intervening contributions, was there anything substantive being discussed?

I just landed in Saigon yesterday. Complete newb.

esl_prof · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:19 pm Post subject:

kellrobinson · Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Posts: 33

Thanks for that!

VietCanada · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 590

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

VietCanada · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 590

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject:

We do. We have provided first-hand information about the value of real teacher-training. Other posters who have worked in Vietnam have agreed totally with this view.

VietCanada · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 590

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:36 pm Post subject:

No need for medication for me. Nor am I bipolar, as you ask of other posters.

Name one what, by the way? Yours posts are hard to follow sometimes.

kurtz · Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 518 Location: Phaic Tan

deadlift · Joined: 08 Jun 2010 Posts: 267

Hi all, thought I'd come out of retirement to put in my 2c. I did 5 years in Vietnam, all in HCMC. However, I have a CELTA, which I'm sure will invalidate my opinion in Vietcanada's eyes.

It's true that the only legal requirement to work as a teacher is a degree and any crappy cert. It's also true that the only legal requirement to drive a motorbike on the road is the ability to steer one in a figure 8. In Vietnam, talking about legal requirements in the same breath as professionalism, competence, and employability is, at best, naive.

If you don't want to work at bottom-feeder schools, get a CELTA or recognised equivalent. If a DOS or whoever has to google the name of your cert to find out its duration and curriculum or if it had contact hours with real students, you've already lost, because they won't actually bother googling when they can choose from all those people with reputable certs in their resume. Even if they do google, they'll inevitably find the typical scammy sales pitch with little or no concrete information by which to evaluate the quality of the course.

I can say this because I short-listed and interviewed applicants. I saw hundreds of resumes from inside and outside Vietnam. They fell into roughly four categories:

1. Experienced professionals

They typically had an MA or DELTA and were hired from overseas, or from the likes of the BC or the better international schools. If they didn't have those quals they could nonetheless talk about pedagogy and linguistics with some authority and had a bit of professional pride. Don't get me wrong, they could also frequently be incredibly arrogant, stubborn, and jaded. Often didn't get jobs because we were only looking to hire junior teachers at that time, or because they took themselves way too seriously.

2. More serious than average new teachers

Could be hired straight of a local CELTA course or out of ILA or Apollo if they interviewed well. Often had some experience outside of VN. Some were on their way to becoming experienced professionals, others just enjoyed their work and play.

3. Backpackers

Could have a CELTA , could be working at the likes of ILA. But clearly didn't give a rats-arse and cared about teaching only so far as it could fund whatever vices they had.

4. Burn outs and Bui Vien bums

Crappy no-name cert, or none at all, and a patchwork of gigs at mid-tier and below schools. Mostly kids, very little adult teaching. No sense of progression at all on the resume and they often tried to dress up their crappy jobs as "freelancing". Great at talking about songs and fun activities but no grasp of basic pedagogy at all.

We hired category 1s and 2s obviously. Sometimes we screwed up and got a 3 or a 4 who managed to fool us by interviewing well.

Also, it has to be said that the idea that the CELTA is only useful for teachers of adults is absurd. Basic grammar and phonology, basic needs analysis, classroom management and lesson planning, some basic drilling techniques and substitution tables. Absolutely 100% applicable and useful even in a kindergarten teaching ABCs. Most CELTA practice lessons are intermediate level or below, putting you in the region of a reasonably good kids class.

So, chalk me up in the "Vietcanada is deluded" column.