Job Discussion Forums

[nnest]

Hi everyone,

A non-native English-speaking teacher here – a Russian national with a CELTA and the obligatory unrelated degree (from a Russian university to boot).

Been teaching English in Vietnam for a year, and while being away from the Motherland’s tight embrace certainly felt great, I am now considering moving back home. Those visa runs were lots of fun initially, but after a year – not so much. Plus, living in this part of the world, as I’m sure you can imagine (and some of you might even intimately know), entails dealing with all sorts of cultural bullshit all of its own, and I am now rapidly approaching the point where I fear I won’t be able to deal with it anymore.

So, I am basically considering swapping one not-so-pleasant-to-live place for another. I could try and go somewhere nicer, but those places won’t have me – because of my passport and my being an NNEST.

And this is actually my question – will that be a problem in Russia? I’ve never taught in my home country before, so I don’t know. All the reputable schools still want (and advertise to their students) NESTs, right? So I thought I’d ask the right honourable members of this forum about their opinions on the subject.

Would an IH or, say, Language Link school hire an NNEST? Would they treat said NNEST fairly – that is, would they pay them the same as they pay their NESTs? Do you personally know any examples of NNESTs working happily (OK, scratch ‘happily’, this is EFL) in mostly NEST-staffed language schools in Russia?

I would also be interested to hear the answers to those questions in regards to CIS countries, particularly Belarus. Minsk is closer to my hometown than Moscow, and is certainly cleaner than any Russian city.

All input is greatly appreciated!

[Sashadroogie]

There is no problem. You speak English and you have a Celta. Come back to Russia!

Roughly half of my colleagues are locals. Students like having the choice between Russian and non-Russian teachers. So, being a NNEST is a non-issue. The only impact it might have is on your hourly rate. Schools will try to pay less because of it. Not really sure how this works everywhere, but be prepared for lower offers initially.

As far as I know, all the large schools hire Russian teachers. But not all have a Celta. It's the not having a clue about communicative language teaching that's the issue for most teachers, not nationality. And that holds for non-Russians too. So, return to the Motherland's embrace with dignity and confidence. You're better set for success than you may know.

Hic!

[nnest]

Thanks Sashadroogie!

What you’re saying is mostly reassuring, except for the part about the possibly lower hourly rate – I’m afraid the same dignity with which I’ll be returning home won’t allow me to accept any such nonsense.

I hear that language schools are just now starting to accept reality (always a slow process in Russia) and raising their pay rates in proportion to the depreciation of the ruble. Is that true?

Do many employers provide accommodation? I’m not sure I could rent anything half-decent in Moscow on an EFL teacher’s pay. I’d happily go (almost) anywhere in CIS that would allow me to save more, though.

How strict are employers when it comes to dress code? This is what Vietnamese schools (not all of them, thankfully) want teachers to look like:
http://apollo.edu.vn/en/hello-teacher/mark-cooper
Now, this is a young learners’ teacher. If you teach adults, your AM might suggest you complete the attire with a business suit. Needless to say, I’ve been wondering for quite some time whether it’s just Vietnam, or if this madness is ubiquitous in the world of EFL. Would it be possible to teach English in Russia and not be dressed as a corporate slave?

Oh, and why would students want to choose an NNEST over a NEST?

[spiral78]

Your experience in Vietnam won't likely be particularly applicable to Russia or any other part of the fSU/CEE region. As you probably know well, most students taught by private language schools are businesspeople, and children are generally taught by more or less qualified local teachers at regular school (at very low rates of teacher pay!).

Basically, the schools will want you to dress similarly to your students in order for you to appear professional in the context. Russian adult students can be very demanding, requiring real meat for their time and energy, and you definitely don't want your professional impression diminished unnecessarily by something as superficial as dress.

I've also worked with quite a number of NNESTs over the past 18 years or so. They bring significant strengths to the process, especially with lower and mid level learners. The ability to translate and explain in L1 when necessary can be a very useful time saver, and it's inspiring to be taught by someone who's clearly mastered the language. Speaking the L1 of your students also gives you insights into the specific difficulties they may encounter and ways to overcome them. For teaching EFL, I would never hesitate to consider a qualified NNEST as equal to a NEST (and we have never discriminated on pay, though starting teachers always start at less than those who have proven themselves in our specific teaching context - so I might pay someone with experience teaching in the region more than someone with experience only in Asia). For professional-level paper editing and very high-level ESP, we usually prefer NESTs, but these are niche markets.

[nnest]

Thanks for your reply, spiral78!

[spiral78]

[nnest]

[Sashadroogie]

The chain schools throw in a shared flat, but there are usually fairly awful. As for dress codes, these vary from school to school, but the basic look should be smart casual. As you must know, Russians generally claim to not like shirts and ties etc., though how genuine this is and how much of an affectation is not always clear.

As for rates, these seem to be in flux at the moment. Perhaps other posters can chime in, for I am not sure what is happening in all schools. But even so, expect to be low-balled. There are plenty of Russian teachers about - even with a Celta. You'll be told this. Repeatedly.

As Spiral has said, NNESTs can provide lessons that learners want which NESTs may not. More sympathy to the difficulties involved in language acquisition, and a model of success that they can emulate. When the L1 is the same, then translation can be used. This is a double-edged sword, of course, but not anathema.

Best of luck!

[nnest]

[Deats]

You will get paid less than a NEST. And rightly so. Why? The same reason as you were paid more than a Vietnamese teacher doing the same job as you. You didn't seem to complain when you took home more than them in Vietnam, right? And you were a NNEST and so were they. Just you have white skin. So don't harp on about Communist ideals of equality Or did you complain in Vietnam that you were earning more than your comrade just because of your skin coloour and offered to share your salary with the other staff... thought not.

A NEST must leave their home, family, friends etc to work abroad. Locals are willing to pay a premium to have them teach, which they aren't willing to pay for a NNEST (in general).

BTW my wife is Russian and we both currently live in Russia. She is just as good as me, if not better, at teaching, but I earn more than her. I don't think it should be this way necessarily, but it is (for the reasons above).

It's funny because all the Russian teachers I know are trying to leave the country, and you want to go back... strange timing. We are getting out of here. Work like a slave all week for a little over $1000 a month (if you are very lucky), or work 16 hours a week in China for $2000 + housing + benefits... no brainer.

Hopefully Russia will rebound in a few years, but until then...

As for Belarus... they are in a bigger hole than Russia... a few hundred dollars a month.

And Ukraine... you'll be lucky to get $300 a month.

And the rest of the CIS... same problem.

Kazakstan may be the best place to try, but I doubt they are paying much to a NNEST, as the salary for a NEST is poor.

Be interested to hear what you end up doing...

[Sashadroogie]

The 'and rightly so' bit is not as absolute as you may think. There is a strong argument that this lower pay reflects nothing more than acceptable discrimination. Many NESTs in Moscow are dire and do not deserve anything like what they are being paid. As for them having to leave their family and friends? There's no 'must' involved at all. They chose to do this. Boo hoo. So why should they be paid more? Especially in comparison to skilled locals?

Many Russians, and the parents of Russian young learners do not see this distinction as absolutely as schools would have us believe. They expect value for money. That means effective teaching. Native teacher status comes a poor second. For many, not all, it is true. It is possible that even Russian spouses are being fed this line - doesn't make it true.

And if you are slaving for 1000$ (50,000 rubles) a month, you're doing something wrong...

[Deats]

Russian teachers of English in public schools and universities earn about 15,000R a month.

If a Russian English teacher gets paid 55,000R a month in a private language school, then they are doing very well, IMO. My wife was paid 60k and only paid 3,500R a month for apartment and all bills (I paid the other 3,500R). It was 45-50 hours a week though. In most language mills you will get shared accommodation or nothing at all. So to actually receive $1000 in hand with your own private apartment is doing well in Russia at the moment - ESPECIALLY for a NNEST.

I'm not talking about what extra money you can get from private students - but there are a million and one Russians advertising English lessons and their fees vary wildly. Tough competition when people offer lessons from 300R - uni students in particular but even NEST from Africa. Not so hard for a native to pick up privates, as there are so few of us here (comparatively speaking - literally speaking in some parts of the country).

Maybe you can tell us what Russian English teachers earn in Moscow? If EF, LL etc are paying foreigners 25-50k a month, then how/why would they pay a NNEST more? I don't get it.

Let's take the OP as an example of pay structure. He is Russian, unrelated degree, CELTA and 1 year 'teaching' in Vietnam. Sorry, but he is no more qualified than a NEST with a degree and TEFL. The native speaker is more valuable to the school. Yes a lot of the NEST are useless, but so are the Russians. And yes there are good NNEST... but there are good NEST too. So, in general, a NEST will get more as you are guaranteed one thing - they can speak English fluently. The same can't be said of all NNEST.

And when I said 'must' I meant to work in Russia you MUST leave your home country. It's a fact. I'm not saying their arm was twisted, just geographically you MUST do this. Hence you MUST leave your friends, family, food, etc behind... unless you plan on squeezing them all in your case

[nnest]

Deats,

Why the patronizing and sarcastic tone? Is that what living in Russia does to native speakers of English?

[Deats]

[Deats]