Job Discussion Forums

[theblakefish]

Hello all -

Long time lurker here, first time poster. I am looking at a position in Abha with[b] learn4life[/b], and I was wondering if anyone had experience in dealing with this organization?

They have had a long-time presence on facebook and twitter and I have communicated with several of their instructors to ask about the institution and life in Abha. I don't see many reviews of this organization online, though.

Any thoughts, ideas, or concerns out there? Thanks!

[veiledsentiments]

Nothing shows up on a search here so that means that this place hasn't been mentioned before. That would rather concern me...

Personally I never heard of this company and suspect that they haven't been in Saudi all that long. What do the teachers you met on Facebook have to say?

VS

[theblakefish]

[quote="veiledsentiments"]Nothing shows up on a search here so that means that this place hasn't been mentioned before. That would rather concern me...

Personally I never heard of this company and suspect that they haven't been in Saudi all that long. What do the teachers you met on Facebook have to say?

VS[/quote]

They actually have been in the Kingdom for a few years - with quite a long online history of information - so I am sure of their status and security of the organization. I got the names and email addresses from my contact person at l4l, and have also seen them on their company facebook page, and they have good things to say about l4l and Abha - although the fact that Abha is a small town is often repeated!

[scot47]

They might be okay, but I have never heard of them. Abha has a nice climate - but it is small-town KSA.

[nomad soul]

[Dedicated]

When looking at the Learn4life website they claim to have as 'stratgic' partners (sic) Cambridge Training College, Britain which has no connection to Cambridge but looks to offer on-line certificates.

They also seem to be tenuously connected to Prince Sultan College of Business and Tourism in Abha.

Rather worryingly on the desertdairies.wordpress.com website there is a plea ' Any sisters seeking to work in Abha, Saudi Arabia?' They are desperate for teachers....

As for Abha itself, because it is 2,200 m above sea level, its climate is one of its attractive features as it rarely goes over 35c, making it a popular escape for Saudis.

[Peppino]

Unfortunately I do have experience with the Learn4Life branch in Abha and would highly recommend looking for another position in the Kingdom. While Abha is a relatively nice place to live, with friendly locals and the best weather Saudi has to offer. The school will ruin the experience.

They love to micromanage everything there and to insinuate themselves into your personal life. The management staff also has an incredibly malicious and unprofessional way of dealing with their teachers, which is the biggest reason why the school can't hold onto their teacher for longer than a few months. If you do take the job, don't be surprised if the most senior teacher has only been there a couple of months.

The Kingdom can be a great place to live but only if you work for the right type of school. The kind who values and respects their teachers, which this school does not. I still find it astonishing that there aren't more bad review of the school considering how many disgruntled teachers I saw pass through during my time there.

I hope this helps you to make an informed decision.

[plumpy nut]

Did you have the unpleasant experience of working at King Khalid University. Learn4Life offered some instructors reasonable overtime pay, I believe it was in the contract, and essentially told them when they got there "Well that's not what we are going to do". The overtime was less.

[Peppino]

Sorry but I have never worked for King Khalid University. And though I didn’t personally experience that kind of scenario with the overtime at the Abha branch, some of my co-worker did. So yes, they do tend to bend clauses in the contract however they want.

[theblakefish]

Yes

[currentaffairs]

Do you mean Sun-Thurs? A normal five-day working week.

[nomad soul]

theblakefish:

To fix your quotes issue, go into your profile and under Preferences, make sure BBCode is ticked.

[bohemiac]

TL;DR -- BUT I'm so surprised to not find more about this place, so here we go...

Do not work for Learn4Life in Abha, Saudi Arabia. The contract you sign will not be the same contract week-to-week as they add un-written rules and procedures designed to restrict your movement and keep you under their thumbs.

The CEO, (MOD edit), is barely present -- I was face to face with him perhaps on six occasions over the course of 9 months. But he makes himself known by ensuring you pay him a $3,000 deposit (a month's pay) every time you want to take a vacation. This new policy was quite the surprise when it suddenly went into affect after working there for nearly a year. They take advantage of the hours listed on your contract and will try to redefine what counts as overtime and what doesn't. They decided on a spontaneous closing for a public school holiday they were originally going to stay open -- but if you were to travel during this time when you were unable to work any hours anyway, they'd dock your pay for each day you were out of the country. (Mod edit) is unsurprisingly a misogynist and says every woman who has left his employ has done so because she is "crazy" or "sleeps with everyone" and not that he doesn't know how to respect people and makes them feel they are trapped and in-danger. I can only imagine what stories he'll make up about me to new teachers. He uses intimidation, fear tactics, and threats of incarceration to keep his female staff up to his standards. He scares you into feeling you cannot give notice in a conventional way as any other job in the world. He views you as his property, which was a risk expected, but he goes out of his way to make sure you feel it in your free time.

The management staff discovered the next job location lined-up for a teacher who completed her contract and didn't re-sign for another year. They called internationally to tell her future employers she was wanted by the Saudi police. Even the small number of employees who finished out their contracts were reported by the CEO to the Department of Labor to ensure they were banned from the country for a few years because he is bitter no one would want to stay under his employ. If you quit, he will try to not pay you no matter how long you've been working for him. If you're by the books when you try to transfer to another job, he won't release your iqama.

On Ramadan break, he entered the teachers' apartments without notice or permission while everyone was out of the country. He paid two migrant workers he found on the street to pack up all our things (throw loose into trash bags) and move us into new dwellings. Of course, myself and everyone had personal items gone "missing." He claimed it wasn't his problem and refused to reimburse us after initially saying he would.

His word means absolutely nothing. He lies about every thing he possibly can lie about. Even his status and influence to make you think he has more power than he actually does. If one person makes a mistake, the rest of the staff are punished. If he or his managers make a mistake, they will try to architect a reason it's not and scream and shout at the teachers for not catching the mistake in the first place. Saving face culture, at its lowest.

The long-standing manager, (Mod edit), allows sexual harassment to continue because he is friends with the staff who carry it out. He also allows these individuals to retaliate against you for reporting. He disavows any reports and puts the blame on the shoulders of the one reporting. He also used threats and intimidation to make the problem "go away." He doesn't know how to manage or even properly communicate with people. He gets away with murder as the CEO is checked out and the only one capable of checking in on him. If you make the smallest, most human mistake, expect to be dressed down or even screamed at in front of the entire staff during full-attendance meetings.

Do not work for these people. They will try to control every aspect of your life, even if you are usually a veteran at separating your work life and personal life. They are bored, paranoid, downright miserable people who bully and seek out fights. Not a single staff member was untouched by them while I was there. Morale was at a deadly low when I left, and they do their best to squash it completely instead of being introspective and trying to raise it. It was the most emotionally abusive event I've ever experienced and it's all manufactured to be this way. All they did was make me feel unheard and unsafe when I was being sexually harassed; then they piled on top of that with their own invasive ways. All they do is perpetuate a climate of fear and hate.

This is a ridiculous, fly-by-night business that lost 7 teachers over the course of 9 months. If they are still open within 3 years despite the CEO's clear disinterest (he made it a policy to only step into the school once a month) or their inexperience, I will be astounded. There isn't any professional development at all, just hurt.

MOD edits for names

[plumpy nut]

Our Arab cousins didn't treat you well at all, did they?

[bigdurian]