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Bringing my wife...

 
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Alphid



Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:19 am    Post subject: Bringing my wife... Reply with quote

Hi, I've been thinking of teaching in Turkey 2 years hence. Like a lot of people perhaps I have a big interest in the history of Mediterranean civilizations. I would like to bring my wife, who is an Indonesian citizen. I've been reading this index and have gleaned a few things about how visas and work permits and employment work, but my main question at the moment is will I be able to have my wife come too and live with me assuming I have all the paperwork for myself done lawfully and so on. Is it a relatively easy process, what are a few key words I should know to send me on my way to further research? tx
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nichtta



Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, if all your paperwork (and hers) is in order, she can definitely come with you from day one. Here's are the main things to read about, and I've given you some websites to get your research going. I wish you the best of luck!

Basically, you have a few things you should read up on:

1. Tourist Visa - This, for example, allows you to stay for only 90 days within a 180-day period, depending on your country of citizenship.

https://www.evisa.gov.tr/en/

2. Work Visa and Work Permit - You get this from your home country's Turkish embassy before moving to Turkey or when you have at least six months valid on your residence permit; working without it is illegal and may get you deported, although many still do it.

http://www.invest.gov.tr/en-US/investmentguide/investorsguide/comingtoturkey/Pages/HowToGetAWorkPermit.aspx

3. Residence Permit - There are different types, such as one for students, tourists, or legal workers.

http://www.expatguideturkey.com/residence-permits/

http://www.yellali.com/advice/question/392/how-do-i-complete-the-online-form-for-the-turkish-residence-permit

The best route is getting permission to work from abroad, coming to Turkey and doing your paperwork to finish your work documentation here then applying for a residence permit for you and your wife. A much more difficult and longer route is coming here with her first, applying for a tourist residence permit for a year (probably as separate applicants but going to appointments together, etc.), then later applying for a work permit through an employer. The latter is, of course, the route preferred by probably most employers I've seen here because they don't have to pay for you and your wife's health insurance, work permit, and I don't think the "contract" you sign (if you they give you one that is) can be legally enforced. You're pretty much expendable as an employee and don't have any rights when you work illegally.
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Alphid



Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Thank-you very much for taking put that post together. I've scanned it just now and I'll read this and start investigating in more detail once it gets a little closer to the time I'd like to head there.
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Bringing my wife... Reply with quote

Alphid wrote:
Hi, I've been thinking of teaching in Turkey 2 years hence. Like a lot of people perhaps I have a big interest in the history of Mediterranean civilizations. I would like to bring my wife, who is an Indonesian citizen. I've been reading this index and have gleaned a few things about how visas and work permits and employment work, but my main question at the moment is will I be able to have my wife come too and live with me assuming I have all the paperwork for myself done lawfully and so on. Is it a relatively easy process, what are a few key words I should know to send me on my way to further research? tx

I am also married to an Indonesian (orang Banjar, dari Kal-Tim) and I have also been very interested in working / living in Turkey ever since I worked there briefly in early 2011 (I married my wife in Indonesia later that year). It keeps getting put off for a few different reasons, most notably the fact that I can make and save more money in other places (China and Indonesia) and the distance of Turkey from both of our families (mine in the US, hers in RI).

I do not know from personal experience, but I don't think it should be any problem to get a proper "trailing spouse" visa and residence permit for your wife, as long as you have a proper job and legit papers as you mentioned. I hope so in any case, since at some point I hope to do the same.

My wife and I are Muslim, so the culture of Turkey would be quite suitable for us, and I think we would both enjoy living there. I need to save money for a few more years first, maybe then we could afford a year or two of breaking even in Turkey, and hopefully the lira will recover somewhat within another year or two, or three ... time will tell.

Where are you now, if I may ask?
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nichtta



Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:19 am    Post subject: Re: Bringing my wife... Reply with quote

mysterytrain wrote:
My wife and I are Muslim, so the culture of Turkey would be quite suitable for us, and I think we would both enjoy living there.


I hate to come in and say this, but you should know that the culture of Turkey in Anatolia, villages, and more conservative places (even within Istanbul) differs quite a bit from the culture you'll find in the vast majority of schools that teach English, with very few exceptions. Some areas of Istanbul make you feel like you're in a major North American or European city, which I personally like because Istanbul is where east meets west, but I just wanted to give you a heads up.

If you have facial hair that appears somewhat religious or have a head covering that is religious, such as a hat or a scarf, you will probably face religious discrimination, i.e., not be hired at all or be asked to remove your religious symbol(s) before being hired.

I think it has to do with the history of the republic coming into existence against the backdrop of the Ottoman State and the new regime wanting to separate itself from its predecessor, Islam becoming a major symbol of the backwardness and failure of the Ottoman State. I'm not saying I agree with this. In fact, I don't, and I have a respect for all faiths. However, you just have to know that in children's books you used to have a lady dressed "modernly" with a low-cut dress and baring her hair and then another one with a headscarf, and there used to be a big X over the latter. I heard this from Turks in their 40s, who were personally taught this. In television shows, the bearded man covering his head with a white hat or the lady wearing a scarf is the uneducated villager or the person who does janitorial work, and you'll rarely find extras that wear any Muslim religious symbols. It's kind of strange to find a country where many people are ashamed of their history and the culture that was in existence but 100 years ago, which lasted for many centuries before that. Anyways, I'm all for freedom: Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Christians, Muslims, agnostics, atheists, and everyone else is welcome to practice as they please as long as you don't infringe on other people's rights.

You'll also find some of the kindest, most welcoming, generous people here in Turkey along with beautiful historical monuments, landscapes, and nice weather. At the same time, you should know that almost everything here is highly politicized from facial hair, to the clothes you wear, to the newspaper you read.
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Bringing my wife... Reply with quote

nichtta wrote:
you should know that the culture of Turkey in Anatolia, villages, and more conservative places (even within Istanbul) differs quite a bit from the culture you'll find in the vast majority of schools that teach English, with very few exceptions. Some areas of Istanbul make you feel like you're in a major North American or European city, which I personally like because Istanbul is where east meets west, but I just wanted to give you a heads up.

If you have facial hair that appears somewhat religious or have a head covering that is religious, such as a hat or a scarf, you will probably face religious discrimination, i.e., not be hired at all or be asked to remove your religious symbol(s) before being hired.

Yes, I'm aware in a general sense of the dichotomies and complexities involved in the culture and political environment(s). The school I taught in very briefly in 2011 was a private koleji in Sanliurfa, which is a relatively conservative area. I wasn't Muslim yet when I was there, though I accepted Islam later that year before I got married.

Quote:
in children's books you used to have a lady dressed "modernly" with a low-cut dress and baring her hair and then another one with a headscarf, and there used to be a big X over the latter. I heard this from Turks in their 40s, who were personally taught this. In television shows, the bearded man covering his head with a white hat or the lady wearing a scarf is the uneducated villager or the person who does janitorial work, and you'll rarely find extras that wear any Muslim religious symbols. It's kind of strange to find a country where many people are ashamed of their history and the culture that was in existence but 100 years ago, which lasted for many centuries before that.

Well, neither my wife nor I are particularly "övert" or ostentatious about being Muslim. Not that we're trying to hide it by any means, but my wife does not "cover"(wear hijab) on a daily basis, only on special occasions: certain Muslim holidays and observances like Eid ál Fitri, Eid ál Adha, weddings or funerals, etc. I sometimes wear a beard or goatee, but not really in a typical Muslim style and I don't wear clothing that would particularly identify me as a Muslim, except on certain occasions as noted above.

I think we would be pretty adaptable to different cultures or environments within the country: we could certainly dress the part a bit more in conservative areas if it would benefit us, but we could just as easily blend in seamlessly with typical Westerners or foreigners living in Istanbul. Asking for time to pray on Fridays or time off for religious holidays, I suppose, could be a problem in strictly secular schools (in the koleji in Urfa, students were not only permitted but encouraged to go to prayer on Fridays, and certainly some of the teachers, adminstrators and staff joined them).

The picture you paint, er, describe does seem a bit peculiar, but again I'm aware of the situational dynamics, generally speaking. Of course, forty years ago women in skirts above the knee and uncovered hair were normal in Kabul and Tehran too, and things changed there pretty quickly... the situation and history in Turkey are clearly different, but in general, Muslims are becoming more conservative and the religious Muslim conservative element in Turkey, mostly backing Erdogan, who I personally have a strong dislike for, are in a battle of social and cultural values with the more secular elements of the population. The pendulum swings one direction, then back to the other side. ( I actually support secularism - in terms of the state and government - and religious freedom of practice for all, regardless of what the religion happens to be. My wife and I want to be able to live as Muslims with free will as given by God, so we can make our own choices and not have our religious practice or "devotion"imposed at the barrel of a gun or sword (see ÏSIS, "daesh", etc) so we are certainly among the less conservative.


Quote:
You'll also find some of the kindest, most welcoming, generous people here in Turkey along with beautiful historical monuments, landscapes, and nice weather. At the same time, you should know that almost everything here is highly politicized from facial hair, to the clothes you wear, to the newspaper you read.

Noted. Other than the truly annoying scammers around the Blue Mosque etc, I was obviously sufficiently charmed by my brief experience that I hope to expand on that experience, when the timing seems right.
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nichtta



Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Bringing my wife... Reply with quote

mysterytrain wrote:
The picture you paint, er, describe does seem a bit peculiar


I was only trying to make your expectations more realistic, but, as LeVar Burton says, "Don't take my word for it." Laughing

Wherever you and your wife end up, I wish you the best!
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicchta, I'm not doubting your good intentions. I realize that I haven't spent enough time in the country to fully realize "how things are" and I do appreciate the "heads up".

It may be exactly as you describe, but hopefully it isn't so bad that I wouldn't be hired in a generally Muslim (meaning there are far more Muslims in the country's population as a whole than any other religious group ... I'm pretty confident that is correct) country, based simply on the fact that I am Muslim. As I alluded to in my previous post, if I don't tell prospective employers that I'm Muslim, they wouldn't know, at least not 'til after I'm hired and working ... still, it does seem a bit puzzling if, as you suggest, most schools which hire native English speakers take secularism so far that they would actively discriminate against those who show any sign at all of being religious.

In my brief stint in Urfa, one of my fellow teachers was an American of Turkish descent, who was a mualaf (convert to Islam). He was certainly accepted and welcomed by the school in Urfa as a foreign teacher who happened to be Muslim, but further, he'd been living and teaching in Istanbul for several years without any apparent problems, and I have a strong sense that Urfa and Istanbul are pretty far apart, culturally speaking ... so, I will take your warning appreciatively, but with a grain of salt or two.

By the way, a note for the OP: unless things have changed recently, I believe Indonesian citizens can enter Turkey on either a VOA or possibly even a visa-free basis ... not sure about the length of stay allowed, but you can look it up.
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Alphid



Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: Bringing my wife... Reply with quote

mysterytrain wrote:
Alphid wrote:
Hi, I've been thinking of teaching in Turkey 2 years hence. Like a lot of people perhaps I have a big interest in the history of Mediterranean civilizations. I would like to bring my wife, who is an Indonesian citizen. I've been reading this index and have gleaned a few things about how visas and work permits and employment work, but my main question at the moment is will I be able to have my wife come too and live with me assuming I have all the paperwork for myself done lawfully and so on. Is it a relatively easy process, what are a few key words I should know to send me on my way to further research? tx

I am also married to an Indonesian (orang Banjar, dari Kal-Tim) and I have also been very interested in working / living in Turkey ever since I worked there briefly in early 2011 (I married my wife in Indonesia later that year). It keeps getting put off for a few different reasons, most notably the fact that I can make and save more money in other places (China and Indonesia) and the distance of Turkey from both of our families (mine in the US, hers in RI).

I do not know from personal experience, but I don't think it should be any problem to get a proper "trailing spouse" visa and residence permit for your wife, as long as you have a proper job and legit papers as you mentioned. I hope so in any case, since at some point I hope to do the same.

My wife and I are Muslim, so the culture of Turkey would be quite suitable for us, and I think we would both enjoy living there. I need to save money for a few more years first, maybe then we could afford a year or two of breaking even in Turkey, and hopefully the lira will recover somewhat within another year or two, or three ... time will tell.

Where are you now, if I may ask?

Hi, I'm in Indonesia these days, Medan; Inshallah I'll be in Jakarta from next month. I'm a Muslim convert, though living in Indonesia and becoming familiar with Islam has actually led me to atheism while before I was very supportive of religion and Islam... shows what I really knew about either growing up in western Canada where as many as 75% identify as atheist according to some studies. I'm a bit concerned about the deteriorating security situation in Turkey, I noticed some jobs listed in Eastern Turkey but once I realizing the location just clicked on to the next link; I'm not interested in being kidnapped or bombed, it's enough of a risk here in Indonesia with with all the backwards and fanatical people and Canada lately under Harper having abandoned it's past peace keeping identity and dove headlong militarily into Afghanistan and Syria and Iraq now.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: Bringing my wife... Reply with quote

Alphid wrote:
I'm a bit concerned about the deteriorating security situation in Turkey, I noticed some jobs listed in Eastern Turkey but once I realizing the location just clicked on to the next link; I'm not interested in being kidnapped or bombed, it's enough of a risk here in Indonesia with with all the backwards and fanatical people and Canada lately under Harper having abandoned it's past peace keeping identity and dove headlong militarily into Afghanistan and Syria and Iraq now.

Then it's best that you don't consider Turkey. Are there other countries in or outside the region that you're interested in?
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Bringing my wife... Reply with quote

Alphid wrote:
mysterytrain wrote:

I am also married to an Indonesian (orang Banjar, dari Kal-Tim) and I have also been very interested in working / living in Turkey ever since I worked there briefly in early 2011 (I married my wife in Indonesia later that year). It keeps getting put off for a few different reasons, most notably the fact that I can make and save more money in other places (China and Indonesia) and the distance of Turkey from both of our families (mine in the US, hers in RI).

I do not know from personal experience, but I don't think it should be any problem to get a proper "trailing spouse" visa and residence permit for your wife, as long as you have a proper job and legit papers as you mentioned. I hope so in any case, since at some point I hope to do the same.

My wife and I are Muslim, so the culture of Turkey would be quite suitable for us, and I think we would both enjoy living there. I need to save money for a few more years first, maybe then we could afford a year or two of breaking even in Turkey, and hopefully the lira will recover somewhat within another year or two, or three ... time will tell.

Where are you now, if I may ask?

Hi, I'm in Indonesia these days, Medan; Inshallah I'll be in Jakarta from next month. I'm a Muslim convert, though living in Indonesia and becoming familiar with Islam has actually led me to atheism while before I was very supportive of religion and Islam... shows what I really knew about either growing up in western Canada where as many as 75% identify as atheist according to some studies. I'm a bit concerned about the deteriorating security situation in Turkey, I noticed some jobs listed in Eastern Turkey but once I realizing the location just clicked on to the next link; I'm not interested in being kidnapped or bombed, it's enough of a risk here in Indonesia with with all the backwards and fanatical people and Canada lately under Harper having abandoned it's past peace keeping identity and dove headlong militarily into Afghanistan and Syria and Iraq now.

Hmm ... very interesting comments (see my PM). Seems like we have been fishing in the same pond, so to speak (or near the same big, big lake).

I'm curious about your comments regarding Islam. Do you now consider yourself a Muslim, or an atheist? Surely the two are incompatible, by virtue of the shahada alone. Whatever your stance is, I won't disrespect it, but it is curious to me that you say you are mualaf and use the phrase "inshálla", but then go on to say you've been swayed back to atheism. No need to explain further if you don't wish to, but again, I am curious. There is certainly room in Islam for divergent viewpoints on many things, I'm just pretty sure that atheism is not one of them (since it is founded on the belief that there is one and only one God).

I have mentioned some concern on another thread in this forum about personal safety particularly in the eastern / southern provinces of Turkey. I mentioned the possibility of foreigners being kidnapped by IS or individuals working with them or other groups in Syria, and this threat was discounted by at least one member on the grounds that such a thing has never happpened (from within Turkish borders) to date. While that may be true, I don't thik it is a reliable indication that foreigners are really all that safe working anywhere near the borders with Syria and maybe some parts of Iraq. It's a shame, because under other circumstances I would consider taking a long-term job in a city like Urfa - about one hour's drive from the border, and in proximity to or on top of some sites of great religious and hitsorical siginficance, like the tomb of the prophet Ibrahim) again... I don't think I would feel confident doing so under the present conditions, with "daesh" so close to the border and agents inside Turkey helping to smuggle those who want to join them in.
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Alphid



Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Bringing my wife... Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Then it's best that you don't consider Turkey. Are there other countries in or outside the region that you're interested in?

I'm considering it -- and as the difficulty of getting working papers in Indonesia increases, my curiosity about Turkey grows. Anyway, I've visited Egypt and Israel, and Burma during the typhoon, and Ukraine too and so on so it's not that I'm shaking in my boots but I'm obviously not wanting to take dangerous risks that might be mitigated by staying away from the East of the country.

mysterytrain wrote:
I'm curious about your comments regarding Islam. Do you now consider yourself a Muslim, or an atheist? Surely the two are incompatible, by virtue of the shahada alone.

Way too complex to discuss on Daves ESL. At least I can say I'm quite interested in Sufism; I wouldn't entirely say that Islam and Atheism are incomparable... I also studied Zen and Buddhism intently for a year, and this is year 20 for me as a student of philosophy (hence my curiosity about Turkey, the center of half of ancient philosophy) so, yeah, it's complex.
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Alphid



Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, by the way; is there a site specifically for esl Turkey stuff; like for example Taiwan has tealit?
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nichtta



Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mysterytrain wrote:
I have mentioned some concern on another thread in this forum about personal safety particularly in the eastern / southern provinces of Turkey. I mentioned the possibility of foreigners being kidnapped by IS or individuals working with them or other groups in Syria, and this threat was discounted by at least one member on the grounds that such a thing has never happpened (from within Turkish borders) to date. While that may be true, I don't thik it is a reliable indication that foreigners are really all that safe working anywhere near the borders with Syria and maybe some parts of Iraq. It's a shame, because under other circumstances I would consider taking a long-term job in a city like Urfa - about one hour's drive from the border, and in proximity to or on top of some sites of great religious and hitsorical siginficance, like the tomb of the prophet Ibrahim) again... I don't think I would feel confident doing so under the present conditions, with "daesh" so close to the border and agents inside Turkey helping to smuggle those who want to join them in.


Something to also take into consideration is being interviewed when you go "back home" to your western country. They'll definitely have some questions for you in general if you were in Turkey, but you'll raise more suspicions if you were staying close to the Syrian or Iraqi border. That shouldn't necessarily be a reason to stop you from coming. However, it's worth taking into consideration. As for kidnapping, probably being in the wrong place at the wrong time (bombing or shoot-out) is more likely at this point.

Alphid wrote:
I'm a Muslim convert, though living in Indonesia and becoming familiar with Islam has actually led me to atheism while before I was very supportive of religion and Islam...


Keep searching for the truth sincerely and humbly and you shall find it, fellow traveler, no matter where you are in the world. Just remember that a faith tradition and how it is practiced by its followers or has manifested itself in different parts of the world may not necessarily be in alignment with the tradition itself or the teachings of its prophet/"founder." You'll find much sufism here in Turkey, by the way, although it differs from group to group. I suggest reading al-Ghazali's works in English, which are widely available online.

Alphid wrote:
Oh, by the way; is there a site specifically for esl Turkey stuff; like for example Taiwan has tealit?


If there is, I'd like to know about it, too. There's a lot of offers on SeriesTEFL sent out every few days for Turkey, by the way, if you want to sign up for those alerts.
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mysterytrain



Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nichtta wrote:
mysterytrain wrote:
I have mentioned some concern on another thread in this forum about personal safety particularly in the eastern / southern provinces of Turkey. I mentioned the possibility of foreigners being kidnapped by IS or individuals working with them or other groups in Syria, and this threat was discounted by at least one member on the grounds that such a thing has never happpened (from within Turkish borders) to date. While that may be true, I don't thik it is a reliable indication that foreigners are really all that safe working anywhere near the borders with Syria and maybe some parts of Iraq. It's a shame, because under other circumstances I would consider taking a long-term job in a city like Urfa - about one hour's drive from the border, and in proximity to or on top of some sites of great religious and hitsorical siginficance, like the tomb of the prophet Ibrahim) again... I don't think I would feel confident doing so under the present conditions, with "daesh" so close to the border and agents inside Turkey helping to smuggle those who want to join them in.


Something to also take into consideration is being interviewed when you go "back home" to your western country. They'll definitely have some questions for you in general if you were in Turkey, but you'll raise more suspicions if you were staying close to the Syrian or Iraqi border. That shouldn't necessarily be a reason to stop you from coming. However, it's worth taking into consideration. As for kidnapping, probably being in the wrong place at the wrong time (bombing or shoot-out) is more likely at this point.

I've returned to the U.S. several times since starting to teach abroad in China in 2010: at the end of that year, coming from China; early 2011, coming from Turkey; 2011, coming from China; 2013, coming from Indonesia; 2015, ditto. No interrogations to date when entering the country, beyond the usual "Whut you been doin'over there?" questions. However, the last two times I have come back from Indonesia, prior to boarding the U.S.-bound leg of the flight (once in Tokyo, once in Hong Kong) I was "selected" on both occasions for the "special secondary screening" including a fairly scrutinous search through the contents of my carry-on bags (my Indonesian wife, who was traveling with me on the second trip, was not singled out, nor were any other passengers boarding that flight, as far as I was able to observe). Coincidence? Just "lottery lucky"? I certainly believe otherwise, but of course, TSA don't have to explain their mysterious ways to the common citizen or visitor.

My first teaching job in China was in Xinjiang province, the primary homeland of the Muslim Uyghur minority with whom the PRC government have had a generally "tense" relationship including notable episodes of violence in 2009 in Urumuqi and elsewhere in the province and, more recently, in Beijing and Kunming incidents.

I came to Xinjiang just over a year after the infamous riots of July 2009. The government had just recently opened internet access in the region again, after shutting it down almost completely for several months. I was warned by a friend, an FT who'd been there for several years, to stay away from certain places like the Grand Bazaar in Urumqi especially around national holidays, especially National Day, May Day, etc. I was told that Western foreigners could be singled out as targets.
I was also warned explicitly by the recruiter who sent me there, as were the other FT's, against getting "too friendly" with the local (minority) populations.
Even then, the air of tension and vaguely oppressive feeling of being "surveilled" at all times (not imaginary, I assure you: there were cctv cameras all over town, including covering all entry / exit points and one pointed directly at the foreign teachers' residence building, and we had reason to believe that both our internet correspondence was monitored as well as a distinct possibility that our phones were bugged).

The U.S. has and I believe continues to support the PRC's stance in labeling one or two particular Uyghur pro-separation organizations as "terrorist groups", and perhaps rightly so. While I did and do have sympathy to the situation of the people there, and more so since I became Muslim, I have never and do not support any "terrorist organizations" or anyone espousing violence toward civilians as a means to a political end, much less have I had any contact or affiliation with any such groups or individuals, for the record. I wasn't a Muslim when I went there, and the reasons for my going there had nothing to do with the political situation, etc: I was looking for a job teaching abroad, was offered a job there and it "sounded like an interesting place" (it is, in many ways).

Ditto wth my brief sojourn to Turkey, which was the filling in the sandwich, er, doner kebab, between two semesters in Xinjiang. At the time I went there, just as Egypt had joined the Arab Spring in full force, Syria had yet to catch fire, though that happened soon after. I knew nothing about Urfa or the region, its proximity to Syria, etc, and did not request to go there, the recruiter in Istanbul sent me there more or less at random with three other FT's.

After leaving Xinjiang and returning briefly to the U.S., I took my next job in Indonesia, where I had lived with my family as a kid and had always wanted to go back. Soon after I got there, I married my wife and became a Muslim.

So obviously, what do all three of these places / regions have in common?

1) Islam
2) the presence of extremist / violent groups engaged in political conflict

And I can understand how a careful look at my travel history over the last five years could perk up certain ears or eyes a bit, but the facts still are:

While I do believe that I was "guided" in some way towards places where Islam is present, prevalent and considered "important" (even if in somewhat controversial ways), I never made a conscious plan about this and even when I went to Indonesia in 2011, I had no conscious thought that I would soon convert to Islam. (My wife and her family, by the way, though thoroughly Muslim, are about as far away from "extremism" as people can get.)

My desire to go to each of these countries and regions was about teaching, traveling and experiencing different places and cultures, and had nothing to do with socio-political or religio-political concerns and conflicts: perhaps the timing might seem "interesting", but everything which happens has to do so "sometime" and in my case, this was it.

So? Perhaps I've convinced the gentle reader of this forum, perhaps not (not really any bark off my tree one way or the other). But I do appreciate what you've said, although I don't need to be warned as I've already been subjected to a form of special scrutiny.

(anyone seen "The Secret Life Of Walter Mitty"? The scene where Walter gets in a slapstick fight with TSA officers over the flute he's brought back from the Afghan mountains is a real smilejerker, presented on the 3D imaging machine's monitor... he traveled there by way of Yemen, which seemed to raise some suspicion)
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