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DELTA 'equivalent to' an MA?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11451
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
Saint Michael's College is where I went, and where my father teaches. But they don't have distance learning.
The boss is British too.

I didn't attend SMC, but I know that "British boss" and hope to speak to her via phone in the next few days. Smile
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:

For ESL teachers in North America, you either get ELL/ESOL/TESOL/whatever acronym as a teachable subject for K-12, or you come back from overseas and get an MA TESOL. I've been an ESL instructor in North America since 2009, and I have yet to meet someone with a DELTA. I work in both K-12 and adult settlement programs.


In Ontario, you do a TESL Ontario approved program (usually) at either a university or a college (a full-time academic year with mandatory practicum), and then you do an MA TESOL / Applied Linguistics (unless you already have an MA in something totally unrelated, then the TESL certificate is enough- especially at the university that offers the program). This is to teach at the tertiary level.

(I've read that it's possible to do a PGCE in PCET (ESOL) [Post-Graduate Certificate in Education in Post-Compulsary Education and Training (English to Speakers of Other Languages)] at at least one university in the UK. That sounds like it may be similar to the Ontario TESL certificates (which may be a Linguistics department program, may be a Faculty of Education program, or may be a stand alone program).
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GambateBingBangBOOM wrote:
santi84 wrote:

For ESL teachers in North America, you either get ELL/ESOL/TESOL/whatever acronym as a teachable subject for K-12, or you come back from overseas and get an MA TESOL. I've been an ESL instructor in North America since 2009, and I have yet to meet someone with a DELTA. I work in both K-12 and adult settlement programs.


In Ontario, you do a TESL Ontario approved program (usually) at either a university or a college (a full-time academic year with mandatory practicum), and then you do an MA TESOL / Applied Linguistics (unless you already have an MA in something totally unrelated, then the TESL certificate is enough- especially at the university that offers the program). This is to teach at the tertiary level.

(I've read that it's possible to do a PGCE in PCET (ESOL) [Post-Graduate Certificate in Education in Post-Compulsary Education and Training (English to Speakers of Other Languages)] at at least one university in the UK. That sounds like it may be similar to the Ontario TESL certificates (which may be a Linguistics department program, may be a Faculty of Education program, or may be a stand alone program).


Correct. My previous statement was made under the (faulty) assumption that one already has a proper TESL certificate (at least TESL Canada One) before embarking on the MA TESOL.
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:
GambateBingBangBOOM wrote:
santi84 wrote:

For ESL teachers in North America, you either get ELL/ESOL/TESOL/whatever acronym as a teachable subject for K-12, or you come back from overseas and get an MA TESOL. I've been an ESL instructor in North America since 2009, and I have yet to meet someone with a DELTA. I work in both K-12 and adult settlement programs.


In Ontario, you do a TESL Ontario approved program (usually) at either a university or a college (a full-time academic year with mandatory practicum), and then you do an MA TESOL / Applied Linguistics (unless you already have an MA in something totally unrelated, then the TESL certificate is enough- especially at the university that offers the program). This is to teach at the tertiary level.

(I've read that it's possible to do a PGCE in PCET (ESOL) [Post-Graduate Certificate in Education in Post-Compulsary Education and Training (English to Speakers of Other Languages)] at at least one university in the UK. That sounds like it may be similar to the Ontario TESL certificates (which may be a Linguistics department program, may be a Faculty of Education program, or may be a stand alone program).


Correct. My previous statement was made under the (faulty) assumption that one already has a proper TESL certificate (at least TESL Canada One) before embarking on the MA TESOL.


That's the point. A TESL Canada ONE level is something like a CELTA- an initial qualification that takes 4 weeks. A TESL ONTARIO Certificate is the same length as what the B.Ed was in the past in Ontario, and is still the norm in the English speaking world outside of Canada- a year after graduating from your degree. TESL Ontario programs are initial certificates in the same sense as a PGCE (The 'C' stands for certificate) from the UK (In the UK and up until recently in Canada [outside of Quebec] becoming a teacher meant doing your 3 or 4 year degree and then a one-year professional degree) TESL Canada ONE could be a four week program done in the Y and counts as nothing at all in TESL Ontario.
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spanglish



Joined: 21 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master Shake wrote:
Has anyone heard of someone getting MA credit for DELTA at a US university? It must be happening somewhere.


Going out on a limb here, I'm going to speculate that the MA TESOL at the New School in New York may offer some transfer credit for DELTA holders. They've had a couple of the main TEFL luminaries on their faculty for a long time now (Harmer and Thornbury) who I suspect would be in favor of that. I did email an admissions officer quite a long time ago and ask, but they said I needed to first apply (and of course pay the big application fee) and be accepted before they would talk to me about potential transfer credit. I am guessing that if you arranged a phone call with a somebody from the specific department in question you could get a straight answer - and that this goes for most US schools.
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currentaffairs



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding credit transfer, in the UK it is not so common (only a few universities have a credit transfer scheme). The usual cut off period is 5 years. Any qualification or modules that have been awarded more than 5 years ago will not be accepted as credit.

The PGCE in ESL/TEFL was terminated some years ago.
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HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The credit transfer in the UK varies because it is determined by syllabus overlap, just covering the same general topic isn't sufficient. When a university gives something like the DELTA a credit transfer value, they have to compare the syllabus of their MA with the syllabus of the DELTA. The % of overlap determines the credit transfer value.

You can see this with the Open University. The DELTA was worth 30% of the MEd Applied Linguistics. However, they are currently redeveloping the course and the syllabus hasn't been finalised. So right now, they aren't offering credit transfer for the DELTA. They can't because they can't justify it with syllabus equivalency. Once the new syllabus is published, the DELTA will probably get a new credit transfer value.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spanglish wrote:
Master Shake wrote:
Has anyone heard of someone getting MA credit for DELTA at a US university? It must be happening somewhere.

Going out on a limb here, I'm going to speculate that the MA TESOL at the New School in New York may offer some transfer credit for DELTA holders. They've had a couple of the main TEFL luminaries on their faculty for a long time now (Harmer and Thornbury) who I suspect would be in favor of that. I did email an admissions officer quite a long time ago and ask, but they said I needed to first apply (and of course pay the big application fee) and be accepted before they would talk to me about potential transfer credit. I am guessing that if you arranged a phone call with a somebody from the specific department in question you could get a straight answer - and that this goes for most US schools.

If accepted by a US university, I suspect the Delta wouldn't be worth more than the standard 6 elective credits. That's not much, considering most US grad degree programs range from 33-36 credits.
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twowheel



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master Shake,

I am the teacher whom mitsui mentioned on page one of this thread who has been an ELF in Chengdu, China. How did your application turn out?

The English Language Fellowship is indeed a great program. I have given a lot to it and in return, I have personally and professionally greatly benefited from participating in it.

As for MAs, yes, the ELF program is really not going to budge much on accepting people without related MAs. I'm not sure Georgetown would take a Delta in lieu of an MA. Delta + related MA could look good on one's ELF application though.

twowheel
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krayola



Joined: 23 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, to become a CELTA trainer Cambridge require either an MA TESOL or DELTA and regard them as equal.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Interestingly, to become a CELTA trainer Cambridge require either an MA TESOL or DELTA and regard them as equal.

That's expected, considering both the CELTA and Delta are UK, Cambridge qualifications. They're also not academic quals. The Georgetown University and US State Dept. ELF program is US-based and has different requirements; teacher training isn't the only function of an ELF.
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is odd since a DELTA should be half as many credits as a MA.
A MA can have a thesis and practical training. For me I did about 150 hours of teaching abroad.
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nomad soul



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
That is odd since a DELTA should be half as many credits as a MA.

Why so? The Delta is not an academic qualification; otherwise, every UK university would readily accept it as full credit toward a master's degree. Similarly, for the US, the Delta is not viewed at the same level as a graduate certificate, which requires admission into graduate school.
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currentaffairs



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
mitsui wrote:
That is odd since a DELTA should be half as many credits as a MA.

Why so? The Delta is not an academic qualification; otherwise, every UK university would readily accept it as full credit toward a master's degree. Similarly, for the US, the Delta is not viewed at the same level as a graduate certificate, which requires admission into graduate school.


The Delta is considered an academic qualification. According to the Qualification and Credit Framework in the UK, a Delta is considered to be at the same level as an MA, and a number of universities offer between 20%-50% credit transfer for an MA program if you have a Delta:

https://cambridgedelta.org/2014/01/09/delta_exemptions/
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
at the same level as an MA


This makes it clearer: the DELTA is considered a graduate level course.

However, being much shorter than an actual degree program, naturally it's not given equivalent weight in most contexts.
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