|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
gregory999
Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 372
Location: 999
|
 Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:42 pm Post subject: “dog whistle” politics in the USA! |
 |
|
"Republicans have been outdoing each other in the vehemence of their statements about Syrian refugees in what the White House views as disturbing xenophobia"
"What used to be called “dog whistle” politics became a shrill blast heard around the world this week as American politicians reacted to the Paris terrorist attacks with an anti-refugee backlash that sounded ferocious even by the standards of the 2016 presidential race"
“If there is a rabid dog running around your neighbourhood, you are probably not going to assume something good about that dog and you are probably going to put your children away,” said presidential candidate Ben Carson as he called for a US ban on all Syrian refugees, “rabid” or otherwise.
Barack Obama has been swift to condemn the new tone in American politics as “offensive and hysterical”, as he pinned his hopes on Democrats in the Senate to stem what the White House views as a disturbing xenophobic tide.
“When I hear political leaders suggesting that there would be a religious test for which person who’s fleeing from a war-torn country is admitted, when some of those folks themselves come from families who benefited from protection when they were fleeing political persecution, that’s shameful,” said Obama during a trip to Asia. “That’s not American. That’s not who we are. We don’t have religious tests to our compassion.”
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/20/carson-trump-refugee-rhetoric-dog-whistle-politics
The land of dream is not anymore ....... and the Statue of Liberty would be "bowing its head in shame" at the refugee bill, the new mood is distinctly un-American. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Perhaps special ID badges for Muslims is not going to solve the issue of Islamic terrorism. Instead how about cordoning off entire Muslim neighborhoods with citizens and police and then performing domicile visits to check for terrorist devices and other illegal things that extremist Muslims shouldn't have. That might be difficult to do in the USA since Muslims are more integrated there. However for Europe that might produce good results. It produced wonderful results during the French Revolution. All people want is to get rid of those that dislike their host countries solely on account of their host countries not being Muslim or Muslim like enough. After all the Muslims who live in the countries where the Muslim immigrants come from feel entitled to do the same thing i.e. kick individuals out over religious and cultural differences. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Xie Lin
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 731
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
After all the Muslims who live in the countries where the Muslim immigrants come from feel entitled to do the same thing i.e. kick individuals out over religious and cultural differences.
|
So you are arguing for European countries to become more like those countries that Muslim immigrants have come from?
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:32 pm Post subject: Cordon bleu |
|
|
| Quote: |
| It produced wonderful results during the French Revolution. |
I'm not aware of any anti-Muslim measures during the French Revolution. Please elaborate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| plumpy nut wrote: |
| Instead how about cordoning off entire Muslim neighborhoods with citizens and police and then performing domicile visits to check for terrorist devices and other illegal things that extremist Muslims shouldn't have... It produced wonderful results during the French Revolution. |
Like organized mobs? Sounds more Old Testament to me: Like smearing lamb's blood on doors.
And in the process, deny all Muslims of their rights of property and any sense of privacy or autonomy.
| Quote: |
| All people want is to get rid of those that dislike their host countries solely on account of their host countries not being Muslim or Muslim like enough. |
All people want is to... protect themselves and, in free societies, where people are treated equally and not breeds of livestock, that is problematic.
| Quote: |
| After all the Muslims who live in the countries where the Muslim immigrants come from feel entitled to do the same thing i.e. kick individuals out over religious and cultural differences. |
Your posts naively address challenges as though government might better discern lies and motivation if granted greater power, but cannot distinguish the expediency of facism from the accomplisment of statutory and democratic republics. The hypocrisy of other nation's governments or traditions or people shouldn't rationalize free people to deny others their freedom. And you continue to employ stereotype based on your anecdotal experience (and interpretations of) what some Muslims do and say to apply it to a larger population of adherents to the faith of Islam. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: Cordon bleu |
|
|
| grahamb wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It produced wonderful results during the French Revolution. |
I'm not aware of any anti-Muslim measures during the French Revolution. Please elaborate. |
Perhaps PlumpyNut was reffering to the "quartiers" of Paris established in 1789. They did not address Muslims (were there many in Paris?) but gave each district some local control over who lived there and how the neighborhood was governed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_sections_of_Paris |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
This seems like a non sequitur. Trump never served in the military and so would not have a military ID. The American individual has an ID because he is in the armed forces, not because he is a Muslim.
In any case, requiring people of a specific religion to carry an ID would be impossible in the US. Besides, many foreign-born people in the US already have special ID cards-green cards. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Let me run this through for you, step-by[step:
1. Trump questions the patriotism of American Muslims by doing the following:
"Donald Trump said Thursday the United States should create a database of Muslims in the country.
"Oh, I would certainly implement that — absolutely," Trump said in a brief interview with NBC News following a town hall event in Iowa on Thursday evening.
In an interview with Trump published Thursday morning by Yahoo News, the Republican front-runner would not rule out taking extreme measures, such as allowing warrant-less searches or requiring faith-based identification. Trump previously said he would consider closing some mosques in the United States."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/11/20/donald-trump-would-certainly-and-absolutely-create-a-database-of-muslims/
2. Trump avoided service during the Vietnam War by getting deferments, some of them questionable:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/questions-linger-about-trumps-draft-deferments-during-vietnam-war/2015/07/21/257677bc-2fdd-11e5-8353-1215475949f4_story.html
3. The Muslim Marine (and many other Muslims) joined the Marine Corps,
Question: Whose love of country really needs to be questioned? Who was willing to make sacrifices for his country?
https://perrystreetpalace.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/muslimgravesatarlington.png
Any clearer now?
Regards,
John
Last edited by johnslat on Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I joined the Navy then deferred it. Not a bad choice for me or the country I come from. That Trump would talk about getting around the Constitution is nothing new. Ron Paul was the last chance and people ignored it, I will not be going back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| johnslat wrote: |
Any clearer now?
Regards,
John |
Yes, I read those and similar links. Thanks.
There was a claim that a reporter started the idea of a database and then Trump responded and then backtracked (uncharacteristic of him).
His dodging of service in Vietnam is not admirable or unique. Clinton took heat from the GOP for doing much the same. Now the liberals are attacking Trump. Fair enough, politics is war. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| buravirgil wrote: |
| expediency of facism |
Ah, the new F-word. Such a strong, exonymic word. In the US, both Libs and Cons throw that word at each other.
In Europe, some righist parties are being called the F-word for opposing refugee settlement or making "hateful" comments about Muslim immigration. On the other hand, Merkel spoke with Zuckerberg about curtailing "racist" and "xenophobic" comments on Facebook.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-26/merkel-confronts-facebook-s-zuckerberg-over-policing-hate-posts
Less than a year after Merkel marched in favor of freedom of speech following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, a German court imprisons an 87-year old woman for Holocaust denial (a crime in Germany).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_Haverbeck
Now who's the fascist? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| steki47 wrote: |
| Fair enough, politics is war. |
Politics is the art of the possible.
-- Otto von Bismarck
Politics among democratically elected/represented republics is a mature and realistic admission and administration of a plurality of beliefs, interests, and cultural traditions.
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others”
-- unsourced aphorism
Churchill's reflections:If I had to sum up the immediate future of democratic politics in a single word I should say “insurance.” That is the future—insurance against dangers from abroad, insurance against dangers scarcely less grave and much more near and constant which threaten us here at home in our own island. —Free Trade Hall, Manchester, 23 May 1909
At the bottom of all the tributes paid to democracy is the little man, walking into the little booth, with a little pencil, making a little cross on a little bit of paper—no amount of rhetoric or voluminous discussion can possibly diminish the overwhelming importance of that point. —House of Commons, 31 October 1944
How is that word “democracy” to be interpreted? My idea of it is that the plain, humble, common man, just the ordinary man who keeps a wife and family, who goes off to fight for his country when it is in trouble, goes to the poll at the appropriate time, and puts his cross on the ballot paper showing the candidate he wishes to be elected to Parliament—that he is the foundation of democracy. And it is also essential to this foundation that this man or woman should do this without fear, and without any form of intimidation or victimization. He marks his ballot paper in strict secrecy, and then elected representatives and together decide what government, or even in times of stress, what form of government they wish to have in their country. If that is democracy, I salute it. I espouse it. I would work for it.” —House of Commons, 8 December 1944 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| buravirgil wrote: |
| steki47 wrote: |
| Fair enough, politics is war. |
Politics is the art of the possible.
-- Otto von Bismarck
Politics among democratically elected/represented republics is a mature and realistic admission and administration of a plurality of beliefs, interests, and cultural traditions.
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others”
-- unsourced aphorism
Churchill's reflections:If I had to sum up the immediate future of democratic politics in a single word I should say “insurance.” That is the future—insurance against dangers from abroad, insurance against dangers scarcely less grave and much more near and constant which threaten us here at home in our own island. —Free Trade Hall, Manchester, 23 May 1909
At the bottom of all the tributes paid to democracy is the little man, walking into the little booth, with a little pencil, making a little cross on a little bit of paper—no amount of rhetoric or voluminous discussion can possibly diminish the overwhelming importance of that point. —House of Commons, 31 October 1944
How is that word “democracy” to be interpreted? My idea of it is that the plain, humble, common man, just the ordinary man who keeps a wife and family, who goes off to fight for his country when it is in trouble, goes to the poll at the appropriate time, and puts his cross on the ballot paper showing the candidate he wishes to be elected to Parliament—that he is the foundation of democracy. And it is also essential to this foundation that this man or woman should do this without fear, and without any form of intimidation or victimization. He marks his ballot paper in strict secrecy, and then elected representatives and together decide what government, or even in times of stress, what form of government they wish to have in their country. If that is democracy, I salute it. I espouse it. I would work for it.” —House of Commons, 8 December 1944 |
Churchill is best remembered as a warmonger. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| No one on this thread has termed another a fascist. You've openly admitted an agenda to represent a minority perspective to give balance to what you assert is a rampancy of "L"iberal ones. Your contributions are too often merely disruptive to reasonable discussion and occassionaly toxic in character. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
