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language schools vs community colleges for Kiwi teacher
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WOOW



Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject: language schools vs community colleges for Kiwi teacher Reply with quote

I'm hoping to move to the California (not sure where yet, either LA, Seattle, Oregon or Santa Barbara) after I finish my MTESOL at the end of next year.

from what I gather from the posts I've read so far, it sounds difficult to find full-time roles in community colleges and universities..my main question is, does anyone know if it would be easier to find-full time work in private language schools?

My quals: CELTA, BA English, MA Drama, 10+ years' experience teaching in New Zealand, South Korea and Oman...at language schools and universities...

I can secure a one-year work visa through a new kind of agreement between the States and NZ...however! is there any word on whether employers are much more likely to hire local teachers...?

any advice would be much appreciated
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOOW wrote:
I'm hoping to move to the California (not sure where yet, either LA, Seattle, Oregon or Santa Barbara) after I finish my MTESOL at the end of next year.
....
It sounds difficult to find full-time roles in community colleges and universities..my main question is, does anyone know if it would be easier to find-full time work in private language schools?

My quals: CELTA, BA English, MA Drama, 10+ years' experience teaching in New Zealand, South Korea and Oman...at language schools and universities.

Your newly-minted MTESOL and lack of US experience may be an issue for university IEPs. As for private language schools, some employers may want American accents. Plus, full-time work opportunities are sometimes hard to obtain. Anyway, look at craigslist job ads to get a sense of what some schools require. Also check out TESOL.org's career site.

By the way, Seattle is in Washington, and Oregon is a state.
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is hard for me to get a job,
and I am from New York.
More jobs are part-time too.

So for you it will be tougher.
High school would be easier if you are certified in NZ.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
High school would be easier if you are certified in NZ.

A state license and secondary school teaching experience would still be required. Check out VIF International for a general idea of the requisite education and experience Kiwis need in order to teach in US k-12 schools.
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WOOW



Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you so much nomad soul and mitsui...some great insights there.


and oh yeah..I mean Portland, Oregon Smile
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WOOW



Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am also surprised to hear that US employers discriminate against people with different accents. very odd indeed.
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOOW wrote:
I am also surprised to hear that US employers discriminate against people with different accents. very odd indeed.

To discriminate based on accent is actually illegal in the US (as accent is tied to 'national origin', which is a 'protected class'), unless the employer can make the case that the accent interferes with the employee's ability to do the job. See here for more information. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Also, in order to do something about it, you'd need to sue the company you think discriminated against you, and prove that they rejected you based on your accent rather than some other aspect of your application, which would be difficult to prove.

Some employers might figure that students are coming to the US to learn and use US English. Also, students who are studying EAP for entry into a US university will need to learn to understand US accents much more than, say, NZ accents.
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you have a doctorate you can easily compete with Americans.
Some high schools have shortages so foreign teachers do get jobs.
Especially if you can teach math, science or special education,
or don't mind being in an inner city school.
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WOOW



Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I still think that is narrow-minded/ conservative. I teach at a university in New Zealand, where most of the students will go on to study at an NZ university, and the staff are from Iran, Scotland, the US, Malaysia, NZ (Maori and Pakeha)...sorry mate, no matter which way I flip that, it has overtones of arrogance and ignorance. (not you, just the phenomenon itself)...I was actually asked to put on an American accent in Korea (Which of course I didn't), while my American friend (Filipino-American), had an oddly difficult time finding work. people need to get over colour, accent, race, nationality. and do you only have "American" lecturers in your universities? "US English" "UK English"...sounds like you guys consider them different languages... I can see your internal logic, but from where I'm standing, it's shallow and flawed.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOOW wrote:
Yeah, I still think that is narrow-minded/ conservative.
....
People need to get over colour, accent, race, nationality. and do you only have "American" lecturers in your universities? "US English" "UK English"...sounds like you guys consider them different languages... I can see your internal logic, but from where I'm standing, it's shallow and flawed.

No one on this thread has declared American English/accents as superior --- it's just English. But reread my post; I stated that some private (for-profit) language schools "may" have a preference for an American accent. However, university intensive English programs are more focused on instructors' academic credentials and solid experience.


Last edited by nomad soul on Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, but there are also job market realities at play.
There are many well-qualified locals on the job market in many regions and they will logically be given priority in hiring, assuming that their quals are equal to yours.

Shallow and flawed as it may be....
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


I can secure a one-year work visa through a new kind of agreement between the States and NZ...however! is there any word on whether employers are much more likely to hire local teachers...?


This, the one-year visa, would be the most limiting factor for getting hired at the university where I teach. Otherwise an MTesol plus experience working with Korean and Arabic speakers, assuming it is solid experience, could put you in the "interview" pile for IEP positions, but not for faculty in the graduate school. However, the one-year availability would probably prove an insurmountable negative (even if they are looking for only a one-year hire, go figure!) Rolling Eyes

Also, your pre- MA experience would rate lower than post-MA experience in weighing competitive candidates; but by itself that would not put you out of the running. You could compete against a candidate that had post-MA experience in the US but no desirable experience abroad, for example. Work in China (EAP, or other four-skills work, not conversation only), Korea, and in Arabic or Spanish-speaking countries are the four rated the highest for foreign experience on an IEP application. The most desirable candidate would have MA or higher, observed teaching practice or CELTA equivalent, post-MA foreiign experience in one or more of the four languages mentioned, followed by US university IEP experience. If there are five or more potential candidates presenting such qualifications, you wouldn't get offered an interview.

Language schools, at least in my major metro area in the eastern US, are another matter. You are more than qualifed for those positions, and the one-year availability would not be a major deterrent in most cases. But we are a long way from California, and this may not be particularly applicable to the market there. We think of California as another country!

.
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be easier for you to get a job in Australia.

Lots of teachers work as adjuncts in the US. There is a surplus of teachers
looking for decent ESL work.

Seems that my experience working in Japan doesn't help.
I guess I should play up my experience in Morocco.
I wonder if I spent time working in China, if I could manage to get work at a university in the US.
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
It would be easier for you to get a job in Australia.

Lots of teachers work as adjuncts in the US. There is a surplus of teachers
looking for decent ESL work
.


Yes, many, many applicants for every university opening here.. This is also the case at the other schools in our network. Crying or Very sad

.
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:

Seems that my experience working in Japan doesn't help.
I guess I should play up my experience in Morocco.
I wonder if I spent time working in China, if I could manage to get work at a university in the US.


Successful experience working with students from particular L1 countries was not an issue in IEP hiring when the job market was not so tight. Now that it is, hiring committees tend to be very detailed in their demands, simply because they can--but also because it is a way to simplify sifting through mounds of resumes. They need reasons to choose to interview candidate A over candidate B from among dozens of equally qualified applicants. (Setting aside the much larger number of the less qualified!)

Having said that, the OP wants to work in California, and California has by far the largest number of foreign university students of any US state, so presumably a good area to target. (Nonetheless, in her particular case, I don't think the outlook for a university position is promising.)

.
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