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NEW VENTURER - WHAT'S TESOL LIKE IN YOUR 'ADOPTED' COUNTRY
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MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: WHERE TO LIVE IN MEXICO ?? Reply with quote

OldandNew wrote:
[
--> Oaxaca was on my short list (believe it or not) but all I keep reading (present tense) is that it's 'expensive' (Not sure what that really means)
--> Can you give me any type of apt rentals costs, 1-2 bedrooms, clean, simple, non-gringo safe area, in town, out of town?
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-> I definitely could enjoy playing the 'local gringo' (who speaks Spanish with an Argentina sing-song accent) in those smaller cities/towns
-> Can You pick your top 2-3 smaller towns for that role??
->Again, can you give me any type of apt rentals costs?
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and Again . . . Muy Amable Por Tu Tiempo y Pensamientos!


In the historic center of Oaxaca, there are some beautifully restored buildings and many have furnished apartments that are short term rentals. Those go for 5 to 10 thousand pesos a month. There are plenty of snow birds willing to pay that much for a month or two in Oaxaca between Nov-Feb or Jun-August. If you go outside of the historic center but still not too far out you could find an unfurnished apartment around 5,000. But once you get outside of the urban area into a surronding community, you could get a two bedroom or smaller apartment or town house for about 3,000 pesos a month. Unfurnished meaning no appliances either so there are start up costs, a stove, a fridge, a bed, etc. It can be hard to find nice small places as Mexican generally don't live alone, students who live alone tend to rent a room in a boarding house type place. Those usually do come furnished but without kitchen access. You can see some pictures here http://www.vivanuncios.com.mx/s-renta-cuartos/oaxaca-de-juarez/v1c1099l11064p1
In cities an hour or two from the city you wouldn't pay more than 3,000 in rent, even for a nice 3 bedroom house with a large garden. In Huajuapan 2000 gets you a nice two-bedroom place.

In terms of other expensive, Oaxaca City is a place where it is EASY to spend a lot of money. There are fabulous restuarants, and many of them are not cheap. I have a place I indulge in when I go there where you easily spend 200 per person per meal. Of course you can also get a set lunch with two or three courses for about 50 pesos. And eating at home is very inexpensive. There are all kinds of entertainment, some free, but there are performances I'd like to attend at least once a month with tickets at least 250 pesos. Then there are the arts and crafts.

To change the subject completely. You mentioned a big earthquake. We have largish earthquakes all the time--but Mexico learned how to build as has Chile. Both countries regularly have earthquakes in the 6s and Chile has had several higher with little or no deaths and without the mass destruction of the '85 earthquake.
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wanderingxelmundo



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldandNew wrote:
wanderingxelmundo wrote:
Since you said you're considering other places, too: Medellin, Colombia is the "city of eternal spring."

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->Do you know about monthly expenses in Medellin or other Colombian / Ecuadorian small cities? (4,000-5,500 ft above sea-level)
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-> I've got $1300 USD/monthly + future PART-Time TESOL job.
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->monthly expense for simple yet hopefully comfortable life-style; clean, basic furnished 1 - 2 bedroom apt in safe/decent 'non-gringo' area>
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I haven't lived in Colombia for 10 years and lived in Ecuador before that but have been researching. HLJHLJ said you could live off of $1,300 (and I think that's anywhere in the country) but said that if you want to work online you'd need to worry about Internet.

When you're over 60 in Ecuador many things are half price. I think all utilities, for example, I don't know what else.

Some Colombians I have asked about Medellin cost of living have told me I could live comfortably there for 1,500,000 pesos. Right now that's less than $500. Even if the dollar weakens again count on it being no more than $750. So even with a weakened dollar and they totally miscalculated, that's a lot of wiggle room before you get to $1,300. I had said I wanted a 1 bedroom, Internet, etc., buses plus taxis, beers and the occasional meal out, occasional movie etc. Safe and clean but not lujoso. My food expenses are low (no meat or dairy) and that's what they calculated, so you might add a bit, but again that's a lot of wiggle room.

If you look in the Colombia forum, many teachers live even in Bogota off of 2 million pesos (now around $645, count on up to $1,000), but I think that would be hard, and they may live in shared accommodations and I can't imagine they eat out much. But Medellin is cheaper, and Pereira, Armenia and Manizales even less.

There is an issue getting an apartment in Colombia (at least in Bogota and Medellin). Generally you need a cosigner who needs to be a homeowner and have good credit according to whatever the credit system is there. So you may need to pay more the first year in a place that normally rents by the month or something like that while trying to find someone to cosign for you.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: WHERE TO LIVE IN MEXICO ?? Reply with quote

[quote="OldandNew"]
MotherF wrote:
If I had passive income, I'd move to Oaxaca City yesterday.

WOW- Thank You SO Much. and so much to choose from!!
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-> First, My Big Fear (Filter): Another major earthquake hits D.F. (and it will) and MILLIONS of people migrate. I want to some distance away from that migration-poverty-lawlessness mob that will spread outwards from D.F. (I hope that's not politically IN-correct)

It wasn't really like that, the lawlessness, though, of course, there could be patches of it, as there already are when there are natural disasters. Plus, so many systems have been put in place since the earthquake that I think if/when another one hits, things will be quite different.
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-> In Light Of That Statement, I believe Oaxaca City qualifies as good as GDL
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Oaxaca de Juarez is WAY better than Guadalajara. I wonder why people say it is expensive. I have been there a number of times over the years and never felt it was particularly expensive. Maybe it is people who want to live the same way they do in the US - eat out at chain restaurants, Starbucks, etc., buy imported food, that kind of thing. If so, then yeah, it can be expensive, but that would be pretty much anywhere you decided to live. If you find some locally owned restaurants, coffee houses, etc, you will have (probably) better food and service and pay half. Shop at the open air markets, if you have that option, instead of supermarkets, etc. Having said that, the last time I was in Oaxaca de Juarez was about 3 years ago, and I paid something like 20 dollars for a hotel room, and could have paid less, around $3 for a meal, which is in line with what my goals are, generally, when I travel.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and one other thing, you stated that Mexico City has 20 million people that is not quite right, that is the whole outlying area that stretches almost to Hidalgo, the city proper only has around 8 million, haha, not that that makes all the much difference, once you are talking multiple millions.
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OldandNew



Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 55
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:30 pm    Post subject: I'll Take You Up On That . . Reply with quote

wanderingxelmundo wrote:
I hope my obsession can help you or someone out!! If you want to know the inches/mm of rain per year, number of "wet days," sunshine hours for these places, I have that too!!

Does obsession include dew point, a better way of determining the 'comfort' level?
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If so can you PM me on some info for some smaller size cities in Latin America you would recommend for retirement where the biggest bang-for-the-buck is?
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Thanks,
Andrew (OldandNew)
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wanderingxelmundo



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: I'll Take You Up On That . . Reply with quote

OldandNew wrote:

Does obsession include dew point, a better way of determining the 'comfort' level?
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No, sorry, I am mostly interested in sunshine, along with temperature. And I haven't researched every place since I have other criteria as well: mostly just the places I mentioned in Ecuador and Colombia. If I look into places in the eje cafetero in Colombia I'll let you know
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OldandNew



Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 55
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:45 pm    Post subject: 'eje cafetero' Reply with quote

wanderingxelmundo wrote:
If I look into places in the eje cafetero in Colombia I'll let you know
Thanks, I did some research on the 'eje cafetero' and came up with these possible cities to live in ranging from 60M to 500M in population.
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Can you or anyone comment on any of these cities regarding cost of living, climate and any other observations.
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Santa Rosa de Cabal (60M), Dosquebradas (190M), Armenia (300M),
Ibagué (500 M), Pereira (570M)
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-> Do you think I'm going in the right direction regarding livable cities where I can get the 'biggest bang for my buck'
-
As always, Thank you for your time and cooperation
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wanderingxelmundo



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andrew,
Sounds like the right idea to me!

I was just curious that people from Mexico said you wouldn't qualify either for a pensioner's visa or a work visa, but you seemed to continue to focus on Mexico. Needing to border hop every six months sounds tiresome, and you'd be risking the government changing the guidelines about that. Other countries might change their guidelines, too, but if you can be a resident for several years then you could apply for citizenship and have more security. But everyone has their own level of acceptable risk, so maybe that didn't/doesn't worry you.

If you would be worried, I personally think you should figure out for which countries you'd qualify for a visa and hopefully eventually citizenship, then make sure they have some affordable cities (where you could at least scrape by on social security alone) within your requirements of size and climate, and then go from there. Other factors are Internet (speed and reliability) if you're going to be studying, and maybe teaching, online, safety, social life, etc.

I have never lived in, nor truthfully even visited, the eje cafetero in Colombia (actually scratch that, I've been to Ibague if that's officially part of it). I just know that climate and affordability (and safety) are within my parameters since Colombians who know me have suggested it, at least as something temporary for a year or two for me (I'm 51, so younger than you and willing to move around a bit, but past the backpacking and partying age as well). They have especially recommended Armenia and Pereira, but I'm not sure why those above the others. And I'm sure they weren't taking into account Internet speed/reliability.
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OldandNew



Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 55
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:29 am    Post subject: My (innocent?) thoughts Reply with quote

wanderingxelmundo wrote:
I personally think you should figure out for which countries you'd qualify for a visa and hopefully eventually citizenship, then make sure they have some affordable cities (where you could at least scrape by on social security alone) within your requirements of size and climate, and then go from there.

When I was living in Guadalajara, Mexico (in the 80's) I was working (with No papers) along side some Mexicans doing business in a very public way, we were producing rock concerts (en tu idioma) like Mana and Flan in large public venues with lots of local advertising.
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I also started a tourist business (with another Gringo) where we advertised in the Mexico City News (the English paper) taking Americans living in Mexico down to Costa Rica to look into retirement possibilities in that country. I even set up a 'FAM' tour for 5 of the american contributors from the various gringo meccas in Mexico (you read about in the weekend edition of the Mexico City News) and contracted with the airline TACA to provide free air service round trip DF, San Jose, Costa Rica. They each wrote a major article on their trip spanning 5 week-end editions in the newspaper. I never once encountered or even felt any government person/agency concerns. Go Figure.
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So I thought that my earning a few bucks with local PART Time private tutoring and/or internet tutoring work would not even make a blimp on the radar screen.
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As to leaving and returning to Mexico every six months, it was not a big deal for me but I think later in my stay in Mexico I found a way to have my tourist visa extended for a few bucks (No biggie). So I was thinking the same with Columbia, cross over to the next country for 24 hours and return or find 'a way' to extend the tourist visa.
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Maybe Today things are different but I though I can start with a tourist visa and see what pans out for me.
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One thought I had on the Local level was to make a deal with a local private language school. They would sponsor/ 'employ me' and help get me the proper papers. I would then represent them in my own seeking out private tutoring in any sector, business English tutoring/ college bound student / where ever. We would split the cost of advertising in some manner or I would pay for it on my own and then arrangement the 'earnings' with them depending on who participated in the costs of advertising or getting leads and turning them into customers. Either way, they would be making some kind of money for doing absolutely nothing.
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I already have multiple TESOL specific/target certificates. In two years I will have a Master's degree in TESOL to hang on my wall and to add to my education arsenal as well as to 'My" advertising. 3 years after that a Doctoral in ESL. (I think) mighty impressive from both an educational background, impressing and winning new business with those impressive credentials and then keeping my customers with great tutoring (Yea I'm real good at that too.)
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Comments?
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wanderingxelmundo



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 1980's you were in your thirties. More power to you if you're as easy going as you were then!

You cut off part of my sentence. I said IF you'd be worried about visas and border crossings, then look first at countries ... if you're not worried about visas, then it's a different matter, and Mexico may be the best bet since it's a place you're comfortable with. In Colombia and Ecuador (and some others in Central America if not SA) you would qualify for a visa by virtue of your social security (and in the case of Ecuador, also your brick and mortar degree). No reason to border hop in Colombia since you can get a pensioner's visa, and not always possible to border hop anyway -- there's a limit to number of days per year as a tourist so they may be stringent at the border. In Mexico you'd border hop. There are some countries where people still border hop and/or live illegally, but again, regulations and enforcement do change.

I would not count on finding "a way" in Colombia or Ecuador, though it may be different in Mexico, I don't know. The only thing that was possible in Ecuador when I was there was "a way" to switch from tourist to resident in Ecuador without leaving the country (which was the law then), and "the way" cost the same as a round tip ticket (i.e. for an American it was $500 and for a Brit, $850!) The only reason to do it was it was more convenient to do it in Ecuador and not take off work etc. Those people were all fired (according to the newspapers); I don't know if they've been replaced with other "way seekers" because I'm not there anymore. Colombia was more difficult than that when I was there. When I was there I had a tourist visa and was within the maximum number of days but I needed to get it renewed since they had only given me 30 days at the airport, but didn't make it back to Bogota from a trip out of town in time and was two days late. I went to DAS with a Colombian who can talk anyone out of anything if it's possible, and it was still very scary, no extra days no nothing, an entire day spent there and a $150 fine later, and I had my 30 day extension. Think of how difficult it is for Colombians to get visas for the US, then think about how they feel about gringos saying, "oh, here's 10,000 pesos, give me another 30 days." (no matter how adept you are at such transactions) It really is not that simple. And it's the same throughout Latin America, whether in the countries that still pretty easily give out visas to Americans or the ones who don't. That doesn't mean that some places won't find "a way," but I wouldn't count on it, or count on "a few dollars." And if you end up in a country where you could get a pensioner's visa, why wouldn't you do that? I'm a bit confused.

The issue isn't that you'd be bothered for working. The issue is that if you stay illegally then if you want to travel, depending on the country, the consequences can be severe upon leaving the country. Or, if you want to leave and return, and the country doesn't let you just leave for three days and return (most don't), then you're trapped there or can't get back to the stuff you left behind. Etc. No, I don't think that anywhere anyone's going to bother you about a few classes online or whatever. Go through this thread (it's your thread with advice for you!) again and read what they said about a work visa in Mexico. As far as I remember, (but it's your thread!) they said it's not a matter of getting sponsored -- you need to get a visa first and job second and won't be able to at your age.

Unless I were just going to check it out planning on returning to the US before moving there, I personally wouldn't just go on a tourist visa to see what happens. What if you need a police report from the US? What if you can't make it work there? What if there are visas you can get but you have to apply from the US? Anyway, again maybe you're just more carefree and I should change my username.
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HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just not a realistic option in Ecuador, and as has been said, what would be the point? Border hopping to get a new tourist visa hasn't been possible since about 2009. You can apply for a 6 month 12-IX tourist visa, but it costs $400 and the resident/immigrant visa is a one-off fee of $500, so if you plan to stay long term it doesn't make sense to get the 12-IX visa first.

Working here illegally is also a seriously bad idea. First of all, nowhere you would want to work for will hire you illegally, so you are truly left with the bottom of the barrel. Sadly, it's a fairly common scam to make an illegal hire, usually of a young and inexperienced teacher, and tell them you'll get them a visa, and you can't pay them until they the visa comes through. Then have them work for free for 3-4 months and once their tourist visa expires tell them they need to go to Colombia or Peru to 'renew' it. Of course, then the teacher can't get back into Ecuador, and the school just deny all knowledge of them.

The corruption has also largely been stamped out now (though I'm sure there are still pockets), but the days of being able to pay $500 to 'bypass' the system are long gone. There was some serious blood letting a few years ago when pretty much the entire staff in one Quito immigration office were sacked or relocated. There was a hacking ring broken up recently where SENESCYT (amongst other places) was hacked and fake education details were verified. Rumour has it that people were paying thousands for that 'service', but it wasn't an inside job.

However, you can change visa in-country now, so it's fine to arrive on the T3 90 day tourist stamp and then make the immigrant visa application once you get here, which does make it easier.

As far as I know with Colombia you can border hop once to get a 2nd 90 day tourist visa, or you can extend your original 90 days in-country, but either way, it's still a max of 180 days as a country. I thought DAS was been disbanded a couple of years ago because of corruption, and the new agency is supposed to be a lot more stream-lined, but I don't have any direct experience of that.
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OldandNew



Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 55
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:28 am    Post subject: THANKS TO ALL Reply with quote

Thank you both for the education.
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Well, I guess we're not in Kansas anymore. . .so . .
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I will definitely look into the visa issues in the several countries I am eyeing. I'm assuming (dangerous word) I can get the initial info online at the respective country's consulate websites, do some reading and see where I stand with each country's visa type and its requirement.
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wanderingxelmundo



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave's is not as active as it once was, but one piece of information that is available here for many countries is visa information (though of course you should verify the accuracy), so you could start with a search here for any countries that interest you (remembering that at your age a work visa is probably out of the question in all countries, so you should pay attention to pensioner's or rentista visas). There's basic info on three countries just in this thread. HLJHLJ is always answering visa questions extensively on Ecuador.

Even in cases like Ecuador where you could switch from tourist visa in-country, you need a police (FBI) report in order to switch, and that's just easier to do from the US although theoretically you can take your own prints and mail them in. You'd need an apostilled copy of your diploma and/or transcripts which usually involves sending signed letters (and checks) to your school and/or secretary of state of the state where your school is located. For pensioner's visas in countries where you're eligible you probably need apostilled social security statements or eligibility letter.
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wanderingxelmundo



Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS, BTW sorry I forgot your BA was also online, so you don't qualify for the Professional visa in Ecuador, but do qualify for the pensioner's visa as per HLJHLJ's comment to you early on.
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OldandNew



Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 55
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:44 pm    Post subject: The End Reply with quote

Well, being that I have 2 different drug possession felonies where I served probation and then each charge was dismissed as if they did not occur, (but they do stay on an FBI file.)
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Looks like I'm just going over to Mexico and coming back to the states every 180 days. Find myself either a small size community where my money does me 'OK' or live in a smaller city and find me some online work or some private tutoring lessons off the grid (which from my mouth to God's ears) the private tutoring lessons shouldn't be that hard to do.
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Thanks to all for your input.
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