Job Discussion Forums

[Hod]

It's not been done before, leaving the EU. No one can be an expert on the subject.

It's a shame that people such as Boris Johnson make the news with this story. The likes of him are in it for political/personal gain. He's already a millionaire so won't be too troubled by the consequences either way. I thought Boris was OK albeit a bit of an oaf before, but now I can see he’s a publicity seeker like all the rest.

I'm a good example of a little Englander. I lived in Germany, amongst other places, for many years and whilst I sort of integrated, I was always questioning their ways. I always had to admit, though, with some jealousy that their sense of teamwork served them very well. It's no surprise then that the Germans I know are all pro-EU. Sure, other countries are struggling, but we'll help them, no? It sounds idealistic, but it's their team-spirited social awareness versus my sadly Thatcherite generation individualism.

But I’m sort of educated and travelled (feel free to mock). In an English Home Counties pub this weekend, I overheard a woman of voting age discussing the upcoming referendum. She recalled a time she went to a café in Paris only for the waiter to apologise as he didn’t speak English. “Yes, you effing well do”, was her reply. I got the impression this one event would help make her a “No” voter.

This is scary.

This is serious. It’s not last May where it was Conservative, Labour or both, and who would cares when they’re all the same? This could affect taxes, petrol prices and the whole UK economy for decades.

I don’t know which way to vote yet. I need research and guidance, not from politicians but from businessman and such people. Too many UK people “dislike” the Germans or the French or cite EU laws abolishing cider on Wednesdays or ladders over 9 metres long. The EU has done good stuff too.
If voters won’t listen to facts and go on blaming the Germans for Frank Lampard’s disallowed goal in 2012 or a stolen beach towel in Magaluff in 1999, I’d rather stay in the EU.

But if the politicians and others present clear and understandable pros and cons, then I hope the voters will make the effort and listen.

[Phil_K]

I was wavering, too. My guide is my local MP (or at least the MP of the place I call home in the UK), Jacob Rees-Mogg. Jacob, who I know personally, is one of the few great parliamentarians we have left. He has a formidable grasp of British history, and being a man of substantial private means, he is in no way a "career politician".
He regularly defies the party whip to vote with his conscience, and in just about every vote, he votes in the same way I would. He also deals with those who disagree with him in a polite and eloquent way, again, very different from the average politician.
I tend to listen much more to this kind of person, rather than as Hod says, someone who is in it for personal gain.
Also, as someone who is fiercely patriotic, and proud of our great history and culture, my instinct says that we are strong enough to survive, and prosper, alone. I'll be voting LEAVE - but as Hod says, it is imperative that we are all given clear information and facts from both sides of the argument, to be able to make an educated choice.

[scot47]

Monoglossia, Xenophobia and Little Englandism. Exit is coming.

[Phil_K]

I know "Little Englander" is meant to be an insult, but I take it as compliment, especially if it is rephrased as "British nationalist".

[johnslat]

Do words matter?

"Nationalism vs Patriotism

Nationalism and patriotism both show the relationship of an individual towards his or her nation. The two are often confused and frequently believed to mean the same thing. However, there is a vast difference between nationalism and patriotism.

Nationalism means to give more importance to unity by way of a cultural background, including language and heritage. Patriotism pertains to the love for a nation, with more emphasis on values and beliefs.

When talking about nationalism and patriotism, one cannot avoid the famous quotation by George Orwell, who said that nationalism is ‘the worst enemy of peace’. According to him, nationalism is a feeling that one’s country is superior to another in all respects, while patriotism is merely a feeling of admiration for a way of life. These concepts show that patriotism is passive by nature and nationalism can be a little aggressive.

Patriotism is based on affection and nationalism is rooted in rivalry and resentment. One can say that nationalism is militant by nature and patriotism is based on peace.

Most nationalists assume that their country is better than any other, whereas patriots believe that their country is one of the best and can be improved in many ways. Patriots tend to believe in friendly relations with other countries while some nationalists don’t.

In patriotism, people all over the world are considered equal but nationalism implies that only the people belonging to one’s own country should be considered one’s equal.

A patriotic person tends to tolerate criticism and tries to learn something new from it, but a nationalist cannot tolerate any criticism and considers it an insult.

Nationalism makes one to think only of one’s country’s virtues and not its deficiencies. Nationalism can also make one contemptuous of the virtues of other nations. Patriotism, on the other hand, pertains to value responsibilities rather than just valuing loyalty towards one’s own country.

Nationalism makes one try to find justification for mistakes made in the past, while patriotism enables people to understand both the shortcomings and improvements made.

Summary:

Patriot: Expresses the emotion of love towards his country in a passive way

Nationalist: Strives for independence and the interests and domination of a nation and expresses his love or concern for the country in an active political way."

Regards,
John

[Phil_K]

Dear John

I think I'm a patriotic nationalist. Please help.

Regards,
Phil_k

[scot47]

Phil K

Nationalist ?
British or English ?

[Phil_K]

[johnslat]

Dear Phil_K

Help is there - you just have to reach out

"When Nationalist Frenzy Strikes...

Are you a victim of the following situations?

More and more, Rene Levesque[1] pops up in your dreams, even in your erotic fantasies, or,

Your husband (or wife) complains: “Ginette (or Pierre), you’ve been wearing that separatist T-shirt for the last four days, and it stinks. We’re doing laundry tomorrow. Can’t you put something else on?”

But wearing anything else makes you feel naked, and you can’t bear the shame.

If you’re suffering from experiences similar to these, you may want to seek the help of Nationalists Anonymous.

Nationalists Anonymous (NA) is a support group of former nationalists who have come together to deal with the problem of nationalism. In a world where upsurges of nationalism seem to be occurring everywhere, we believe it’s more urgent than ever to talk openly about — and to fight — this plague, which is responsible for wreaking such havoc in our personal lives.

At first, in many cases the nationalist believes that nationalism is good for him. Brandishing flags and other nationalist symbols, being proud to be Quebécois (or American or Japanese or whatever) creates a feeling of power, an intense but usually short-lived euphoria. Submerging oneself in “the people,” grasping at a false sense of community appears to offer the nationalist an identity, the feeling that he’s a somebody. At the same time this enables him to avoid confronting what he has truly become."

Repeat after me: "Hi, my name is _________, and I'm a Nationalist."

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/michael-william-when-nationalist-frenzy-strikes

[gregory999]

[Hod]

[johnslat]

Tee-hee

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/832/513/f2b.jpg

Regards,
John

[scot47]

I await instructions from the ghost of Bonnie Prince Charlie.

[Knedliki]

I doubt much would change if the UK did exit the EU. Despite what scaremongering media might say.
It's not as though 800,000 Poles would get sent back home immediately and EU countries would stop doing business with the British. Apart from having more autonomy on how you set your own laws I don't know what the benefits are.
Just seems like change for changes sake. Let the people vote for something every now and then to make them feel empowered while continuing to shaft them in every other area of their life.

[scot47]

We will know that things have changed when the bankers are in the slammer. Do not hold your breath.