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Brexit begins
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nimadecaomei



Joined: 22 Sep 2016
Posts: 430

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New policy, women and children (under 10) and see how it works. Not the first time in history. What they want now is no women or children and only adult men. See how that works in history.
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this a gap fill activity?

New policy for what? Who gets extra pudding on Saturdays?
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HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1200
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hod wrote:

I would cite another reason for any apparent increase in racism, and that's Political Correctness. Every country has its fair share of racists. It's better if these people have their say rather than being silenced by PCness.
.


That's bull. My niece stood for a position on the student council at Manchester University. People went round scrawling 'Paki' across her campaign posters (wrong continent, but whatever). Jewish students had swastikas drawn on theirs. I guess they were just having their say after being oppressed by PCness.

If you aren't condemning it, you are condoning it, and brushing it off as 'PC' demeans those who are suffering. It's easy to be say 'let them have their say', when they aren't saying it to you. And it's not just about being called a Paki or any other racial slur, it's about the very real violence that follows when this kind of verbal violence isn't silenced.
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My not condemning racism isn't condoning it. Don't be daft. Your comment’s just like George W Bush's hilarious 2001 With us or against us. Do you like ISIS? If not, how was your trip to Syria to take up arms against them? You haven’t been, so are you condoning ISIS?

No, no one’s been racist to me in the UK, because I’m white and middle class. I’ve experienced a lot of racism, for example, in Thailand of all places but always felt sorry for the perpetuators who were invariably from poorer backgrounds and had had no opportunity to see different viewpoints. But for every Thai racist, there’d be a hundred, or more like ten thousand, who’d have no problem with me at all.

I’d rather have the devil you know. If someone’s racist, let’s hear it. Writing “Paki” on a sign when no one’s looking isn’t hearing it. There will be people right now who refuse to offer blacks (non-PC language, oops) a job or landlords who won’t rent an apartment to Indians. To me, this makes no sense, but rather than silencing these people aka sticking heads in the sand, let’s hear why they have a problem. Telling them not to say “blacks” or “paki” for the last decade hasn’t helped.
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HLJHLJ



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1200
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you understand what condemn means? It would seem not. And as I've already said, they are also having things shouted at them in the street. Anyway, as you have apparently decided this is all fair game now, there doesn't seem much point in continuing this.
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cassava



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Individuals who resort to bigoted name-calling are usually not only racist but also linguistically lazy. Telling them what not to say does not go far enough. They need to be constantly reminded that the correct terminology for people whose ancestry is African is simply "People of African Ancestry".

They should be able to figure out that terms such as "Pakistanis", "Hispanics", and "Indians"are the acceptable ones for the appropriate groups.
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cassava wrote:
They need to be constantly reminded that the correct terminology for people whose ancestry is African is simply "People of African Ancestry".


So I'm not allowed to say Barrack Obama was America's first black president? If not, saying I'm white must be offensive too.
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HLJHLJ wrote:


That's bull. My niece stood for a position on the student council at Manchester University. People went round scrawling 'Paki' across her campaign posters (wrong continent, but whatever). Jewish students had swastikas drawn on theirs. I guess they were just having their say after being oppressed by PCness.

If you aren't condemning it, you are condoning it, and brushing it off as 'PC' demeans those who are suffering. It's easy to be say 'let them have their say', when they aren't saying it to you. And it's not just about being called a Paki or any other racial slur, it's about the very real violence that follows when this kind of verbal violence isn't silenced.


The people that wrote Paki and put swastikas on the posters are clearly bad people. No question about it and you will always have these racist people around. So what are we supposed to do? Allow every person who wants to come in to the West inside? That can no longer be done. Racists are different from who I am and every other person who wants to limit immigration of Middle Easterners and others to the West. In Saudi Arabia I made friends with a person who was Pakistani, both of us had absolute disdain for the Saudis. He was an atheist and me an agnostic/deist. He had a mathematics degree and would have absolutely scoffed at an Islamic studies major. Some people should not be coming to the West and it has nothing to do with racism whatsoever. I don't believe in such a thing as race, it's scientifically untenable. There are major differences between people in different parts of the globe because of education, and the cultures that impart a dysfunctional education starting with the upbringing of children when they are very babies and very young.
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Dr X



Joined: 04 Jul 2016
Posts: 84
Location: Everywhere

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plumpy nut wrote:
Allow every person who wants to come in to the West inside? That can no longer be done. Racists are different from who I am and every other person who wants to limit immigration of Middle Easterners and others to the West. In Saudi Arabia I made friends with a person who was Pakistani, both of us had absolute disdain for the Saudis. He was an atheist and me an agnostic/deist. He had a mathematics degree and would have absolutely scoffed at an Islamic studies major. Some people should not be coming to the West and it has nothing to do with racism whatsoever.

Can we say that some people should not go to the Magic Kingdom, especially if they are atheists and agnostics?
And it has nothing to do with racism.
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HLJHLJ wrote:
Do you understand what condemn means?


(Cambridge Dictionary)

condemn
verb [ T ] UK ​ /kənˈdem/ US ​ /kənˈdem/

C2 to criticize something or someone strongly, usually for moral reasons:
The terrorist action has been condemned as an act of barbarism and cowardice.
The film was condemned for its sexism.


I'm curious to know what condemning you've done. With any luck, those racists in Manchester read Dave's.
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cassava



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hod wrote:
cassava wrote:
They need to be constantly reminded that the correct terminology for people whose ancestry is African is simply "People of African Ancestry".


So I'm not allowed to say Barrack Obama was America's first black president? If not, saying I'm white must be offensive too.


The concept of "black" and "white" to describe people is not only nonsense from a genetic point of view, but it is also just plain silly from the perspective of logic and anthropology.

I have no intention of citing the massive literature which would support my assertion simply because of the context in which this discussion is taking place. Suffice it to say that among the so-called "blacks", there is a wide range of hues and types. Among the so-called "whites", hues run the gamut from pink to ashen. Yet, the linguistic laziness and fatuous ideology that prevail among many people cause them to persist in using these terms.

It is interesting to note that in the recent past, the term "yellow people" was frequently used, but has now been consigned to the dustbin. Also sport teams in certain countries which used the title "redskins" are now being constantly castigated.

I believe that accuracy in communication is of paramount importance and that educators should be in the forefront of those promoting that simple fact.
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until you can tell me how to describe myself, I'm white.

If racism is increasing in the UK following the EU referendum, this demonstrates how pointless politically correct terms of speech have been. I know black people who cringe when people say "of African ancestry" or "coloured". They'd rather people said "black", which is not offensive.

In fact, they'd rather people just acted normally and treated everyone equally instead of worrying about saying the wrong thing all the time.

I'd much rather know who was racist and then being able to deal with it.
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Dr X



Joined: 04 Jul 2016
Posts: 84
Location: Everywhere

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hod wrote:
Until you can tell me how to describe myself, I'm white.

Which white? British? Irish? Scottish? Gypsy?
White and Black mean different things to different people.

If you are married to a foreigner, how do you describe your children? White and Black? White and Yellow?

Anthropologically speaking, the definition of ethnicity is not universal, and may change through history.
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cassava



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hod wrote:
Until you can tell me how to describe myself, I'm white.

If racism is increasing in the UK following the EU referendum, this demonstrates how pointless politically correct terms of speech have been. I know black people who cringe when people say "of African ancestry" or "coloured". They'd rather people said "black", which is not offensive.

In fact, they'd rather people just acted normally and treated everyone equally instead of worrying about saying the wrong thing all the time.

I'd much rather know who was racist and then being able to deal with it.


With all due respect, I do not think that it is my place to tell people how to describe themselves. If it is necessary to describe them in cultural or linguistic terms, I allow myself to be guided by their view.

I live in Canada. Many years ago I worked in a College in the the Far North. I quickly learned that the term "Eskimo", which I had previously been accustomed to using to describe these people was rejected and loathed by them. Nevertheless, I found no difficulty in getting accustomed to using the term "Inuit", which was more accurate from all kinds of perspectives. The term "Indian" previously used to describe aboriginal people is also no longer acceptable in Canada since the people rarely ever used this word to describe themselves collectively. I had always used the term "First Nations People", the proper name, so I did not need to be corrected in this regard.

Canada consists of vast numbers of cultural groups from all over the world. In interacting with people, I try to find out how they prefer to be called, if and when the circumstances arise. I do not assume that preconceived notions that I may have about their collective cultural names are right. This is not a case of acquiescing to some notion of political correctness. I think it is simply the logical and sensible thing to do.

In dealing with so-called "people of colour," I treat people as people. If the question of cultural origin arises, I mention mine first, then ask the person where s/he is from. I speak English and French and I usually ask someone that question in French when I hear a French accent that is new to me. Of course, I speak to people using their names, but on those rare occasions when the question of national identity or cultural origins arise, I refer to people as they prefer.

I still think colour-coded group names are inaccurate and unfortunate. However, we live in an imperfect world and I have no intention of losing any sleep over this matter.
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've no idea what you're banging on about, but your flowery PC language makes you a perfect example of someone who'd make my black acquaintances feel very uncomfortable.
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