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Plight of ESL Instructors at Colleges
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madhatter109



Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious - how did the process go of getting your state teaching license(s)? I am starting to kind of play with the idea of getting state certified and just going the public school route. I have a master's, and I'm wondering if that would save me some time. Do you just have to take a certification test or do you actually have to complete additional schooling? I've tried googling "state teaching certification" and endless things pop up pointing in a million directions. No straightforward answers. Could someone give me some feedback on their experience (how much money it ended up costing them, where they did it, how much time was involved)? I'd be interested to do the certification online, is that an option?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Way too many questions that you can find answers to on your own since there's no one-size-fits-all situation.

Since you're in the US, start by checking the Department of Education's website in the state you live in by Googling department education [name of state]. Follow the links on teacher licensing/certification. Contact them with your questions.

Also, look at Teacher Ready and Teach Now --- both are teacher licensure/cert programs with info on the process, costs, requirements, etc.
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ttxor1



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as Nomad Soul says, there's no one-size-fits-all for teaching certifications. It really depends on the state, the extent of your qualifications and what the institution will accept as credit towards the certification.

I've also seriously looked into doing a state certification. The states vary wildly in their requirements. (https://education.uky.edu/acadserv/pdac/certification-by-state/) In the state that I'm considering doing a certification in, it also depends on whether one wants to do an Elementary or Secondary license. Also, the state I'm looking at doesn't offer a full licensure in ESL, but only an endorsement. This means that applicants must do a licensure in another subject, and then can add on a certification in ESL. Having a BA from an accredited college or university is one area where they all agree is a starting point. In addition, you should also have passed the Praxis exam(s).

First, in my state, they will look at what your BA is in. If like me, for example, you've done a BA in English (Literature), they probably will give you all of the credits you would need for an English/Language Arts certification.

They may require more coursework. Again, it really varies, but in (state) I must take at least 34 more credits to complete the certification (total cost would be at least $18,000).

Doing a certification in another state might be less expensive, but keep in mind that if you're not a resident of the state requirements might be different. Also, there will be living expenses while you're doing the course. In (state) one can apply for a substitute teaching position while doing certification, but it would be difficult to do while taking classes.

Good luck, and wish me the same! Doing a state certificate (or a PGCE in the UK) will open up so many more doors. International schools by all accounts pay well, have great students and working on an academic calendar will give you the time to recharge and rest.
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Washington - Kind of tough. Need the Praxis in reading, writing and math just to teach English. Why math to teach English? Stupid.
I have provisional certification for just one year.
My BA is in English from a school in Maryland.
Need to take the English Language Learners test to renew my certification even though I have a MA in TESOL and have taught EFL for 19 years.
Plus I was already certified in Arizona.

Even though I was in Japan I was able to get the fingerprints here, and mail them to Olympia, WA.

Oregon and Idaho though, demand that fingerprints must be done in the USA.


Arizona - it has gotten easier. I had to take a reading (literature) test to get certified in English. I did that online in Tokyo.
Had to take an online test as all teachers need to have the endorsement in SEI - Sheltered English Immersion.
Need to pass the Arizona/US Constitution test by August 2017.

The other thing is that now teachers just need the one class for SEI, but there used to be two. I did it online with a professor in Tuscon.

Ohio and Tennessee are about the easiest states to get certified in, and states that border Canada or in the north seem to be tougher.
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madhatter109



Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttxor1 and mitsui - thanks for giving your experience. I did look at individual state requirements many times before but I couldn't really picture how much actual time and money would be invested in getting these licenses by just looking at the list (the state websites for certification are the least user friendly I've ever witnessed). That certainly sounds like a huge amount of time and effort. A little bit frustrating, since we've put so much time and money into getting a master's and so many years teaching experience. It does look like public school would pay pretty nicely though and provide job security (building a stable future for ourselves). I see public teaching adverts everywhere for certified teachers. It's certainly something to think about. I'll certainly have to ponder that one for a while (so much time and money required, I think I really need to think long and hard about whether I want to enter the public school system for the indefinite future). I just don't know. I wish the best of luck to both of you, that certainly is an adventure!
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isitts



Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
Washington - Kind of tough. Need the Praxis in reading, writing and math just to teach English. Why math to teach English? Stupid.

Not to bump an old thread, but wanted to correct this part of your statement. The Praxis is only in your area of expertise, the subject you’d be teaching. The reading, writing, and math test(s) is(are) separate from the Praxis and not that difficult.

...As long as I'm posting, did you decide against Hawaii?
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes due to the cost of living. Rent can easily be 2000 per month in Honolulu.
Also I have two small dogs and quarantine is needed.
But my wife could probably get work, so I cannot rule it out.
I heard that there is no air conditioning at public schools, so that is a drawback.

So you mean the math Praxis is not needed for Washington? I thought it was.
I can check again. If it is just the reading and writing part I could take that.
I want to teach English.
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isitts



Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
So you mean the math Praxis is not needed for Washington? I thought it was.
I can check again. If it is just the reading and writing part I could take that.
I want to teach English.

I said the Praxis is for the subject you’d be teaching….which for you would be English? Or do you mean ESL? So, yes, you take the Praxis.

And you take the reading, writing, and math test, which is separate from the Praxis.

Your previous post implied that they were the same test. So I wanted to make clear that they are separate.


mitsui wrote:
Yes due to the cost of living. Rent can easily be 2000 per month in Honolulu.
Also I have two small dogs and quarantine is needed.
But my wife could probably get work, so I cannot rule it out.
I heard that there is no air conditioning at public schools, so that is a drawback.

I see. Well, I wouldn’t let the lack of air conditioning be a deal breaker. The weather isn’t like Japan. I lived there six years and don’t remember ever needing an air conditioner.
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peripatetic_soul



Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:24 pm    Post subject: Plight of ESL Instructors at College Reply with quote

Hello, mistui, isitts, et al.

Actually, there are 3 different types of Praxis - I, II and III, for which I created a new thread so as not to derail this thread on college ESL instructors.

Also, as you may know, not every state requires Praxis (e.g., California), as they have their own standards for licensure of p.s. teachers.

It'd be so much simpler and judicious if states would a) standardize the protocols for licensure, b) thereby making it easier for teachers to meet the standards from state to state, should he/she relocate, and c) allow teachers' accrued years of experience to be transferable credit towards retirement benefits across all of the States.

Regards,
PS
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isitts



Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitsui wrote:
Being a first class citizen where I can be in my culture will be nice after 19 years abroad.

I’m afraid you are vastly underestimating reverse culture shock. You are not going to just walk back into “your culture” after being out of it for 19 years without a hitch. Not saying it can’t be done. Just…man, 19 years.

As for not being able to imagine US public schools being harder to deal with than Japanese schools…well, it’s apples and oranges…both covered in sh*t. They’re both crappy…just crappy in different ways.

You think the hoops to jump through for getting certified is onerous…wait until you’re in. And you can’t play the foreigner card like you could in Japan. In the US, no one is going to understand why you aren’t fitting in and seeing things the way everybody else does.

Again, not saying it can’t be done, but I wouldn’t daydream much about what it’s going to be like.

Semi-full disclosure, I never completed my teacher certification in Washington State, so you can take my comments with a grain (or scoops) of salt. I did take the Praxis (for biology) and the reading/writing/math test…as well as the GRE. That was easy enough. And I was accepted into the certification program because of my teaching experience…as I’m sure you would be (or have been?).

It was more the policies to abide by once I was in the program that was hard to go along with. Maybe for you, it wouldn’t be a big deal.

If it’s really time for you to leave Japan, that’s cool. Check your options. If you have the MA in TESOL, you might have other options besides public schools in the US. As in, you might have other options in the US and other countries.

As harsh as this post may have sounded, I wish you the best of luck.
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isitts



Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Plight of ESL Instructors at College Reply with quote

peripatetic_soul wrote:
Hello, mistui, isitts, et al.

Actually, there are 3 different types of Praxis - I, II and III…

Ok, but you’re generally not going to need to take more than one of them unless you’re teaching more than one subject.

peripatetic_soul wrote:
Also, as you may know, not every state requires Praxis (e.g., California), as they have their own standards for licensure of p.s. teachers.

We were referring to Washington State.

peripatetic_soul wrote:
It'd be so much simpler and judicious if states would a) standardize the protocols for licensure, b) thereby making it easier for teachers to meet the standards from state to state, should he/she relocate, and c) allow teachers' accrued years of experience to be transferable credit towards retirement benefits across all of the States.

I’m sure that’ll happen Wink

peripatetic_soul wrote:
I created a new thread so as not to derail this thread on college ESL instructors.

Fair enough. Sorry. Embarassed
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peripatetic_soul



Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:43 pm    Post subject: Plight of ESL Instructors at College Reply with quote

Re: Teaching in public school in the U.S. these days - guess we should move to another thread after this?

isitts wrote:
As for not being able to imagine US public schools being harder to deal with than Japanese schools…well, it’s apples and oranges…both covered in sh*t. They’re both crappy…just crappy in different ways.

. . . And you can’t play the foreigner card like you could in Japan. In the US, no one is going to understand why you aren’t fitting in and seeing things the way everybody else does.


Isitts is spot on! I left college ESL to teach in public school for those benefits and to be home early with my son. I only lasted 9 years. Believe us, mitsui, it is nothing like 10-20 years ago. In my experience, though, the ESL students are much more manageable and respectful than the native speakers in mainstream classes.

As for sharing cross-cultural experiences, most of the adminsuits who were the Principals and Vice Principals of our schools never studied a foreign language or traveled/lived overseas so they are impervious to one's enlightening experiences. Not everyone will embrace your cultural adventures and insights. I recall a Principal once saying to me after I helped some newbie Hispanic ESL students at -0- level English board the correct bus: "Please don't speak Spanish to them. We speak English in this country."

I realize that's an isolated incident but the point is, if you're planning on teaching mainstream English, be prepared for a vastly different learning environment than what you may have envisioned years ago. Sad to say but many students today have acquired a sense of entitlement. I see it all the time with high schoolers enrolling in our college classes. Also, I recall that the adminsuits in our school district had advised us to NOT write up students for detention, implying that we lacked strong classroom management skills and were deficient in entertaining/engaging our learners.

It's a totally different environment today. However, to be fair, we need competent, compassionate teachers who are committed to preparing students for the future and there ARE many students who are eager to learn and exert their best efforts to be successful. As isitts alluded to, though, be prepared for return culture shock. It's inevitable, as you probably know the stages of culture shock, not to digress to a different topic here. Good luck and wish you the best in future endeavors!

Regards,
PS
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mitsui



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are options in the US.
I don't believe every public school is bad.
There are private schools, charter schools.
There is adult education.
There are choices. There are 50 states.

America has no monopoly on entitled students. Lots of spoiled students in Japan. Often students are more like customers than students.

I don't fit into this culture. I remember being told I am too American, or that people can't get along with me here. Whatever. I can leave.

I work part-time in Japan with a brutal commute of 90 minutes each way three days a week. My other job is better but I just get paid when I teach and not 12 months of the year.
I make half of what I did in 2008.

There is a demographic crisis here. Schools will close.
I have a friend who is in his late 50s. He is unemployed.
I know another American who works at five schools. He is burned out and wants to retire but cannot.
The future looks grim here.
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peripatetic_soul



Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 303

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:18 am    Post subject: Plight of ESL Instructors at College Reply with quote

Mitsui,

Sent you a PM.
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