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Options in Italy?
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mrpianoman



Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is that cos I worked for Berlitz? Embarassed
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11497
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's because you post useless questions in numerous country forums - you are clearly never going to actually go to any of these places, and it's just a waste of time for anyone who kindly tries to give you advice.

(Saudi, Italy, Germany, US, UAE and China, with further interest expressed in Korea- for this particular forum identity alone over the past two months).

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/search.php?search_id=2049056196&start=45

That's a well-established trolling technique here as "some" silly time-wasting soul has been banned about 23 times so far in 2016 alone for this.
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mrpianoman



Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only asked questions on the Italy forum. I think I might have asked one question on china's. The rest I have just responded to questions asked, not asked them myself. The only places I am interested in going to are Italy and possibly Saudi (again). I'm not going to china or UAE. Germany is also a possibility as I speak German and they have a lot of language schools throughout the country. I have an interview on Monday for a job in Italy again for example. I've been in discussions with a recruiter about a job in Saudi too but I don't really want to go back there if I can help it. Rolling Eyes
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
TIR just out of interest, as someone who has lived in Italy for a long time, would you personally recommend Italy as a destination to live in regards to ESL teaching or would you suggest to go for another country?


I can't answer that question for you as it all depends on what you want out of it. I don't think that Italy is the place for structured career development (no real sense of a meritocracy) and the economy isn't great. This means that promotions aren't always forthcoming, and you could be stuck at entry level for years.

On the other hand, I had a great job in Rome (combining teaching, materials development and project management) which I probably wouldn't have had anywhere else where a hierarchical structure would have given it to someone higher up in the food chain...

There are opportunities to be had in Italy, but you have to be in the right place, (ie working in the right company) or you have to seek them out. For sheer variety of work, I'm pretty happy. I've taught lots of teens, lots of vocational stuff, as well as uni / exam prep teaching.

You could do well if you're entrepreneurial (ie set up language clubs for kids, along with "partners" such as Italian teachers / nursery schools etc) but if you don't have the language skills, you'd need other people to help you. There's a huge demand for ELT and good teachers will always find work - though not necessarily well paid.

Language school owners probably have the best of it financially, but in many places you're going to find that competition is tight. Plus the headaches of a business in Italy - taxes, financial regulations etc make life difficult.

I've stayed in Italy because I love the life here. I'm a fair bit older than you I think, so I haven't needed to work in language schools to gain experience. When I first came here, I already had a few years behind me (and years working in other sectors) which meant I was suited to the proj management work in Rome - I didn't want to trek across Rome to go and teach an hour here, an hour there, for example. But I know other people who feel kind of trapped, or who work piecemeal jobs to get enough money to live on. Think zero hour contracts, no sick pay or holiday pay, and a lot of scraping to get by in the months when there's no work.

Finally, I don't think Italy is the place if you want to practise all your MA level theory, etc. Most employers know enough to ask for a CELTA, but that's it. Of course, you can use your knowledge, but don't expect to get paid more because of it. The important thing is: can you teach a class; can you keep control of a class; can you engage the students and show them what they've learned with you; can you make the lessons interesting enough so that they come back next week??? That's what really counts. So energy, enthusiasm, a good grasp of English grammar, a likeable personality...
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Baggio



Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply TIR, very insightful.

The truth of the matter is it has always been a dream of mine to live in Italy, even for a year.

I'm under no illusion that the money is great or the career progression is straight forward. Thanks to yourself and others I'm getting a more well-rounded picture of what I can expect in Italy (and Europe in general).

I think the best course of action would be to do a year in Italy and take stock of how we feel after that year. My girlfriend and I brought up the notion of opening our own language academy, but surely you would have to take a unique approach that would differentiate it from the hundreds of other language academies in Italy/Spain/wherever.
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mrpianoman



Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have now been paid by Berlitz for the 3 weeks I taught and it comes to £780 which is less than I've spent because I had to lay out nearly 800 euros for the flat and only got 50 euros deposit back. Then two flights to and from Italy around £80 each.

So I have written to Benesse Holdings who own Berlitz to ask who I can make a grievance to since I was sacked without any real cause or rectification. I hope there is someone to complain to. I wrote to 2 or 3 Italian employment lawyers asking what, if anything, I can do but have received no reply from any of them! Sod them then if they don't want to help.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11497
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I can do but have received no reply from any of them!


Surprise, surprise Rolling Eyes
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mrpianoman



Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont' worry, I have at last received a reply from an Italian employment law firm who are calling me on Monday about this contract. I'm not hoping for much, but even if I can get a letter sent to Berlitz to 'shake them up a bit' after what they did, I'll be amused a little. But only a little. Very Happy
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think the best course of action would be to do a year in Italy and take stock of how we feel after that year. My girlfriend and I brought up the notion of opening our own language academy, but surely you would have to take a unique approach that would differentiate it from the hundreds of other language academies in Italy/Spain/wherever.


I don't think you have to be unique - but you do need to be realistic about what your clients are going to want. I think it would also take some time to get established and to build up a client base as there's a lot of competition from other language teachers / schools. Bear in mind that YL is a growing market and that a lot of young people are leaving Italy to try and find work elsewhere. There's a big demand for English language teaching and as long as your students feel they're making progress and your prices aren't exorbitant, I think you could do well. (Just watch out for those taxes and the bureaucracy!!)
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