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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010 Posts: 270
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Dedicated
Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 972 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I totally agree. It says 23 universities produce the average male graduate who earns less than those who had not been to university at all. Now they are probably saddled with student loan debts.
These 'useless' or Mickey Mouse degrees came into being in the late 1990s as the Labour government created the target of having 50% of all students in higher education by 2010. The situation is not helped by the conversion of polytechnics into new universities in 1992.
How can employers take 3 year degrees such as ' Surf Science; Golf Management; David Beckham studies; Harry Potter studies; Photography" seriously? What do they actually qualify one to do? |
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Knedliki
Joined: 08 May 2015 Posts: 160
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Dedicated wrote: |
How can employers take 3 year degrees such as ' Surf Science; Golf Management; David Beckham studies; Harry Potter studies; Photography" seriously? What do they actually qualify one to do? |
TEFL |
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grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 1945
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:14 pm Post subject: Degrees of success? |
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Dedicated wrote: |
How can employers take 3 year degrees such as ' Surf Science; Golf Management; David Beckham studies; Harry Potter studies; Photography" seriously? |
The Surf Science and Technology degree offered by Plymouth University has defied its critics:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8259015.stm
The Applied Golf Management Studies BSc is offered by the University of Birmingham (established in 1900) in partnership with the PGA. According to the University website, "Graduates from this degree programme have found employment in golf facilities around the world."
Degrees in Photography are not exclusive to the post-1992 universities; the University of Edinburgh (founded in 1582) offers a BA (Hons) degree, and the Royal College of Art (London), which received its Royal Charter in 1967, offers an MA. Students from the latter institution "graduate with a rich portfolio of talents and skills, and go on to create new work in an impressive variety of roles and companies around the world."
There are indeed employers who take these qualifications seriously.
By the way, there are no degrees in either David Beckham or Harry Potter studies. In 2000 Staffordshire University offered a module in football culture for students taking media studies, sociology or sports science degrees. It featured Beckham, but he was not the central focus. The Department of Education at Durham University (established in 1832) offers a module entitled Harry Potter and the Age of Illusion. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Posts: 1613 Location: Home
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry for offering an opinion and not a link to someone else's. I'm taking (much-needed) golf lessons now. The golf pro(s) at any club won't be particularly rich nor have the most sociable of working hours, but they'll love what they do. They also have a natural talent for teaching. Whatever level of golfer you are, you can go to a pro with a playing problem, and they'll sort it quickly.
These golf degrees do require a ridiculously-low golf handicap of about 3 or 4, so it's not as if anyone can turn up and study. Fair play to anyone taking that route. |
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johncoan
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 Posts: 115
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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What does this have to do with ESL? |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010 Posts: 270
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grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 1945
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:14 pm Post subject: Dodgy? |
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Neither of the articles cited supports slapntickle's claims about "useless degrees" or "dodgy courses." The first deals with EU students defaulting on UK government-backed loans and the Student Loans Company's efforts to recover the debts. It makes no reference to the degree subjects, the graduates' job prospects or the reasons why some of them fail to repay their loans. The second article features five graduates who have so far been unable to find work in their chosen fields. They have degrees in Forensic Science, Maths, Marketing, Law, and Egyptology. There is no indication that any of the interviewees are from poor backgrounds and none of them are "high and dry"; they all have jobs and are upbeat about their future. |
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Captain Coddo
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 Posts: 45 Location: East Coast
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: Tefl degree |
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Somebody once told me that there was a degree available in ... TEFL.
I almost died laughing. Just IMAGINE the type of losers that would be applying to do that one! |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010 Posts: 270
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:14 am Post subject: Re: Dodgy? |
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grahamb wrote: |
Neither of the articles cited supports slapntickle's claims about "useless degrees" or "dodgy courses." |
I wasn't attempting to support the claims of the OP regarding useless degrees, but was rather attempting to show that this issue is related to ESL. It would be much easier to find lots of evidence online to support the fact that many of the degrees offered by universities today are a waste or time and money and will not lead to a decent job. The media like to demonstrate how a degree can boost your earnings, but the truth is that the relationship is spurious to say the least. While I agree that a degree from a good university like Oxford carries its weight in gold, other degrees from lesser-known schools are becoming worthless. It's common sense really: If thousands of schools are graduating thousands of students year in and year out then the degree loses its 'scarcity value' and hence its market value. There is a glut in many countries of students with degrees and employers are having a job of sorting the wheat from the chaff. Our universities have become paper mills, churning out students who lack skills and have worthless degrees, but feel they have come of age because their degree sits framed on the wall for all to observe. Big deal.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/are-degrees-worth-the-paper-theyre-printed-on-922410.html |
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johncoan
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 Posts: 115
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Dodgy? |
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slapntickle wrote: |
grahamb wrote: |
Neither of the articles cited supports slapntickle's claims about "useless degrees" or "dodgy courses." |
I wasn't attempting to support the claims of the OP regarding useless degrees, but was rather attempting to show that this issue is related to ESL. |
You might have attempted that but I still don't see a particularly strong connection. |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010 Posts: 270
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy? |
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johncoan wrote: |
You might have attempted that but I still don't see a particularly strong connection. |
So what, according to you, should ESL relate to? I teach international students on presessional courses throughout the year. These students are working towards dodgy degrees, some have taken loans, and all are anxious about getting good jobs upon graduation. For these reasons, I would say that my posts are highly relevant and get to the crux of the matter. What is ESL to you? Classroom games and trips to Brighton pier? |
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johncoan
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 Posts: 115
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Take it easy. Your posts are highly relevant and get to the crux of the matter. |
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grahamb
Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 1945
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy? |
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slapntickle wrote: |
I teach international students on presessional courses throughout the year. These students are working towards dodgy degrees, some have taken loans, and all are anxious about getting good jobs upon graduation. For these reasons, I would say that my posts are highly relevant and get to the crux of the matter. |
You still haven't provided any evidence to support your claims about the plight of foreign students, nor have you explained what you mean by "dodgy degrees." There is indeed a glut of graduates, but the current economic situation has greatly reduced the number of job vacancies in the UK and abroad. |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010 Posts: 270
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: Dodgy? |
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grahamb wrote: |
You still haven't provided any evidence to support your claims about the plight of foreign students, nor have you explained what you mean by "dodgy degrees." |
A dodgy degree is one that has no market value(ie, won't get a student a job) and has not imparted any real skills that the student can use in the real world upon graduation. Clear? Students, whether international or domestic, are being sold an inferior product for an inflated price. Most students do degrees so that they can get the job of their choice. Most students that earn a Ph.d don't want to be working as waiters for the rest of their lives, but the glut in graduates is creating this problem.
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/03/06/increase-in-masters-and-phds-in-greece/
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28062071
While I concede that the world economy is not in the best of health at the moment, I do think it is wrong that students are being sold degrees that promise high-powered jobs and a comfy middle-class lifestyle. One reason that students from China for example come to the UK is to get a shiny degree from a shiny British university that will give them the edge in the job market when they return home. However, what they are finding is that there are fewer jobs, more competition for those jobs, and that their degree isn't the silver bullet they thought is was when they first set out on their academic journey. Throw students loans and debt into the mix and what you have is a recipe for much youthful angst:
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/fresh-protests-tunisia-erupt-over-unemployment-and-poverty-1253106075 |
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