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Unemployed with a CELTA
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descartes123



Joined: 06 Aug 2016
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maruss wrote:
You could be in for a very rude awakening to reality if you go to work and live in Russia!


Really? Please give me more details. Are you talking from a financial perspective; poor salary, cost of living etc?

maruss wrote:
Some years ago the authorities there tightened up on the minimum requirements for hiring foreign teachers and many firms now specify that you have to have a degree before they can accept you, which was not the case ten years ago when I went.


Regarding the degree thing, this topic probably warrants another thread. I don't think it is always a fair assessment. It seems that a degree is a measure of one's intellectual capability. Although this can be true, it is not always the case. There are some people who don't have a degree, but who are skilled, knowledgeable in their field, and there are others who have a degree and piss around.

Also if it is not a teaching or linguistics degree, I don't how how any other degree can be applicable to teaching a classroom the difference between countable and uncountable nouns....

maruss wrote:
fulfilling all their requirements is no guarantee that you will have a good experience, as you can read in many postings on this site.It would be well worth your while reading up on some of them and costs you nothing!


Yeah I have read some horror stories haha. I don't know why its so dodgy!
It is not exactly the nightlife industry...or is this just generally the case in Russia?

I was thinking about going there in person, but whether this is worth it or not, I am not too sure.

Anyway thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it )
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11324
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

descartes123 wrote:
Regarding the degree thing, this topic probably warrants another thread. I don't think it is always a fair assessment. It seems that a degree is a measure of one's intellectual capability. Although this can be true, it is not always the case. There are some people who don't have a degree, but who are skilled, knowledgeable in their field, and there are others who have a degree and piss around.

The topic of degrees has been discussed numerous times, and that same argument always comes up. It goes both ways; there are also those who lack a degree who "piss around."

Again, a bachelor's degree is the equivalent to what a high school diploma was decades ago. It's often considered as evidence of the person's commitment to learn given that it adds 3-4 years of formal education post k-12. Plus, some countries require their citizens hold at least a BA in order to teach and make no exceptions for foreigner teachers.

Job seekers who lack a BA are often competing against degree holders, which may be why you're finding it hard to secure work. Moreover, the pool of countries where a degree is not required is shrinking. Although an employer may not state a BA is a must, it's usually a government requirement for legal employment.

Your options are limited. You'll have to compromise in regard to country and/or city.
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maruss



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 1144
Location: Cyprus

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Rude awakening? Reply with quote

Holidaying in a place and going to work there are very different things in many countries, Russia included!
1)Unless you are lucky enough to have the experience to get one of the few well-paid jobs there via a foreign agency then you won't earn much more than enough to get by and probably will save very little in real terms, especially as the exchange rate for the rouble is so low nowadays.Effectively you are going for the experience.
2)The daily routine of living and working in a city like Moscow is very stressful, even more so if you have to commute and teach at various locations: if you have split-shifts and it is too far to home in between you will end up with very long-and tiring working days, whatever the weather etc!
3)If you expect that you will be helped along and appreciated for making the effort as a foreigner to live and work there when the financial rewards are meagre, you will be disappointed, as many postings will reveal on this site.
Local people there generally lead quite difficult lives and their biggest concern is how to make enough money for their needs, so they will have little time or sympathy for anyone who expects kid-gloves to cope with Russian life!Without getting into the political aspects, Russia today is not a place where most people enjoy the freedom of expression, rights and protection which we tend to take for granted in the west!
No, it's not the nightclub business but as teaching English is one of the few ways of working and living in Russia for foreigners, employers there often seem to think that there will always be a supply of people who are willing to take what they offer, even if not for long!
4)Having a degree in English is now a minimum requirement for teaching jobs in many countries in addition to CELTA/TESOL etc.and it seems that if a Russian employer is going to get you an annual work permit rather than ask you teach with a business visa as we used to in the past, they have to show this to the authorities when they make the application.Having said this, there are always exceptions, depending on your employer and other factors such as your previous experience and how desperate they are to find someone!
Please feel free to ask me for more info.-I am always glad to comment, based on my own experience.
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Chrstphr87340



Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to keep in mind that university education is extremely common in the former Soviet Union -- Christian Science Monitor estimates 55.5% of Russians have at least a BA http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Education/2010/0809/Countries-with-the-highest-college-graduation-rates/Russia-55.5-percent.

Of course, we can debate the quality of Russian higher education; however, the fact remains that an adult without a BA in Russia is a bit of an oddity. This, coupled with the fact that you are applying for teaching positions (where virtually all of the students would expect you to have a university education), means that it will be very difficult for you to find a job as a teacher -- especially a job in a reputable company.

If you like Russian/Soviet culture and are flexible, you might find better options in some of the poorer/less Western post-Soviet countries, where people might be a bit more desperate for native speakers. I'm thinking specifically of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and the Central Asian states.

Good luck to you!
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maruss



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 1144
Location: Cyprus

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: A valid point.. Reply with quote

With the possible exception of Georgia, I would not consider going to the other countries though, for a number of reasons.Azerbaijan has occasional vacancies but Baku is not a very nice place to live, while Tbilisi has become very modern and westernised in recent years.However whether the situation there is actually better than in the old days for most people is hotly debated among Georgians!Not many of them can afford the designer shops, smart cafes and restaurants etc!
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descartes123



Joined: 06 Aug 2016
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All sounds very depressing.

The university degree thing in this regard is really just a system.

Its funny how CELTA was so dead quiet on this subject when they were happy to take 1,000 pounds from me, with the promise that you can work as a teacher right away. Can I get a refund?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11324
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

descartes123 wrote:
Its funny how CELTA was so dead quiet on this subject when they were happy to take 1,000 pounds from me, with the promise that you can work as a teacher right away. Can I get a refund?

No refund, unfortunately. Although a degree isn't required for enrollment in the CELTA course, training providers expect prospective teachers to research where in the world they can teach based on their particular qualifications. And again, there are still some places where you can find teaching gigs without a degree if you're wiling to compromise.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11493
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you can get a job right away, just not anywhere you want, as nomadsoul points out!
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Chrstphr87340



Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you really expect to have lots of job offers to teach when you don't have a university degree? Think back to your school days- how many of your teachers didn't have a degree? I'd imagine zero. As a native speaker with a CELTA, you can probably find some work, but certainly not decently paid, high quality, or official work.

The simple fact is, not having a degree disqualifies you from certain professions, and educator is one of them.
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descartes123



Joined: 06 Aug 2016
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrstphr87340 wrote:
Did you really expect to have lots of job offers to teach when you don't have a university degree? Think back to your school days- how many of your teachers didn't have a degree? I'd imagine zero. As a native speaker with a CELTA, you can probably find some work, but certainly not decently paid, high quality, or official work.

The simple fact is, not having a degree disqualifies you from certain professions, and educator is one of them.


Do you work for a university? I think this is a narrow, backward way of looking at life. But probably true, so far as educators are concerned.

Remember there are also many people, who with degrees, haven't found jobs either. It is not a magic ticket.
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Spasibo



Joined: 02 Dec 2015
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue here is that for most teaching jobs in Russia you need a university degree. Now, how useful that degree may be is up for discussion. I know of qualified teachers wtih a B.Ed who said that it wasn't useful but gives them that certificate. Without it you can't teach in a public school period.

But I certainly agree that a degree isn't what separates a good and bad teacher.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11324
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

descartes123:

What's your plan at this point?
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