Job Discussion Forums

[waltgomez]

The thoughts below are an opinion of the poster based on the poster's observations. Another person can have a completely different opinion/impression of the place.

If you are offered a job by Vinnell and are assigned to Vinnell Aviation, here are some things to keep in mind:

1) It is run very much like a military operation, hence you will be expected to look and act like a military person or, at least, like a clean-cut Mormon type. Or, if you can remember a movie about life inside a submarine and the people that work in there- that's the kind of people that succeed at Vinnell Aviation.

One person got seriously reprimanded for such small things as loose shoe laces and a belt bag. A tiny little glitch in appearance or improper communication can cost you your job. The manager's power is absolute. He can just fire you at a moment's notice without giving you any explanation.

2) It is run by younger CELTA-type teachers ( 30ies), and many of the employees are older ( 40ies- 60ies) with MA's and even PhD's.

3) Observations are weekly, with forms and reports and follow-up counseling. Even if you have a PhD in TESL, you will still be treated as a CELTA "practicumer".

4) The teachers are expected to use course books as little as possible, but instead, create or find " adapted materials". Thus, even though you are given books, you are basically expected to teach from something that you need to prepare every day; not so much from the books.

The good things: Vinnell, in general, is very efficient at getting you all the documents for the job, very slick with medical tests, bank accounts, etc.; the location is quiet, the Internet connection is pretty good, the lab facilities are very modern. The food is American.

If you think you can handle it, then go ahead; the money is good- some $4500 after tax. However, it is very stressful, and the greatest emphasis is on maintaining spotless military appearance. The younger management treats the employees as military subordinates.

If you are more of a college/creative type, then do yourself a favor and look for a job in a university environment. You don't want to go thru the hiring process and then lose that job because you did not look and act like a neat airman.

[hash]

[revilo]

You taught in San Pedro?

My condolences.

[In the heat of the moment]

Was anyone else waiting for the above message to self destruct?

[waltgomez]

[scot47]

I remember Vinnell and some of its EFLers and military types from my time in KSA. Big bucks but there is a price to pay for that.
Even though they had big salaries some of them took moonlighting evening jobs at ELS and Larsen-Nielsen (LANSA).

[SaabFanatic]

[sammysez]

I also see the Vinnell post, however, I noticed the "LIVE FIRE" video and we're not talking about the fire department here.

It doesn't say, but where and when was/is this??

Is this where we would be living if we work there?

[shfranke]

Greetings.

Ref the question posted in this thread about where SANG units conduct live fire training (with Vinnell Arabia trainers-"safeties" and/or U.S. Army OPM SANG military advisors discreetly also present).

Almost all of such live fire training is conducted in the expansive maneuver and firing range area inside SANG's military complex / military city in the Khashem al-An area of Riyadh. That controlled-access maneuver & firing area is reached by ascending a winding road into a broad valley. Went there many times as Observer-Controller/Trainer (OC/T), mostly to assess mech infantry units moving across the exercise area, with live fire shooting (field artillery pieces, towed Vulcan AA guns and TOW missiles) done some safe distance away.

Don't know if Vinnell Arabia's ESL programs have been expanded to include ESP in aviation-related subjects, or whether the sub-contractor which supports SANG Aviation Command with the technical / maintenance / aircrew training to SANGers also operates a parallel "stand alone" ESP program specific to that "business" of tactical aviation.

When I worked for VA (Chief Trainer for Intelligence, CT/SF/ISO, not ESL), one of the two guys who shared our villa was a ESL instructor.

He clarified that VA then taught only a prep course (i.e. "teach to the test," versus develop all-around fluency) focused on features of DLIELC's American Language Course. The purpose was to enable SANGers to achieve sufficient ECL test scores so they could then attend the longer ALC resident program at DLILEC at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, TX, after which graduates would attend "follow-on- training" ("FOT" in "DLIELC-speak") at their respective U.S. Army military schools elsewhere.

FYI, another apparently-emerging field of opportunities for US-origin ESL teachers is the Ministry of Interior (MOI).

MOI's force structure includes a (ahem) diverse bunch of paramilitary units, such as Border Guard Force, Special Security Force, Special Emergency Force, Facilities Security Force, National Police/aka Public Safety Force), et al. Since the visit to KSA by Pres Trump last May, MOI is expanding and increasing interest in topics involving the ability of MOI personnel to communicate in "U.S. Military English." At least two U.S. major / prime contractors resident in the kingdom now support the MOI; can provide limited available details on request to me at [ mutarjm (at) aol [dot] com ].

Hope this helps. Today is Saturday, Dec 2, 2017.
Regards, Stephen H. Franke, San Pedro, California

[General Incompetence]

[AbeCross]

Is this thread about the main EFL institute in Riyadh? Or is Vinnell Aviation just one of a number of departments? There is another Vinnell thread here and I am trying to determine if it is the same outfit.
Weekly observations and 30-something CELTA-holders as managers sounds pretty bad!

[Charlie123]

[revilo]

"As far as observations, they are often daily -- perhaps several times a day. Keep in mind that the individuals observing you are not professionals. they are looking for write-up material." Except observations are limited to once a week since they only have 1 guy to observe.

[Charlie123]