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Every job offer seems to come from The Five Furnaces.
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joe30



Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bear wrote:
joe30 wrote:
plumpy nut wrote:
joe30 wrote:
Anyone who actually accepts a position paying 5,000 a month for 9 months of the year quite frankly is too stupid to be let out of the house without supervision, let alone go to a foreign country.


Laughing That is an extremely low wage for China. However for the newbie after a year of working at 5000, a newbie can go up the ladder to a higher wage. It's difficult to get good Korean jobs or any other good job with no experience. Thailand the pay is just as low with really bad students.


Nobody should be accepting 5000 a month, even a total noob with no idea what to do or how to teach. You'd be better off unemployed back home (as in, you'll actually make more money claiming unemployment benefits).


But that's only the financial side of things.

Let's take an example situation of a newbie on 5,000 a month, working at a uni 16 teaching hours a week, free apartment, utilities included, long holiday, in a small central-Chinese city.

Their quality of life would be a lot better than unemployment at home. They could eat out every meal (Nothing fancy of course BUT with the occasional western or 'better' meal). They would have plenty of social activities (being foreign in China you're automatically an interest). They'd have great opportunities for travel. They'd have the potential to learn a new language.

And that doesn't include the fact they can find side jobs to up their income.


I'm personally on 5,500 a month, but I didn't choose this job for money. I work 8 hours a week at a uni. BUT I have 4 hours of private classes a week, upping my salary to 9,300 a month. In a great city.

I really wish people would stop thinking better salary = better job/life.


There's a point where there is a discussion to be had about more money vs better work life balance.

5000rmb a month isn't anywhere near that point though. I can understand a guy earning 15k saying he'd prefer to have more free time rather than going for 20k, but at 5k there just isn't enough money to live anything like an acceptable life.
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The bear



Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe30 wrote:

There's a point where there is a discussion to be had about more money vs better work life balance.

5000rmb a month isn't anywhere near that point though. I can understand a guy earning 15k saying he'd prefer to have more free time rather than going for 20k, but at 5k there just isn't enough money to live anything like an acceptable life.


That's your interpretation of an 'acceptable life', which is a fuzzy concept.

I admit, you won't be going out often or eating at fancy restaurants all the time.

As of most things in life it's only possible to say 'it depends'. If you're in your 40s, have a family, then yes, 5k a month probably wouldn't cut it. However, if you've just graduated (let's say 22), single, just wanting to have a good time. Then 5k is enough.

Or I could equally say if you're a spoilt brat (or entitled adult) who requires the latest iPhone, LV handbag, steak meals at the best restaurant in town, then yes, 5k a month won't cut it.

Horses for courses.
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Tazz



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 512
Location: Jakarta

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no realistic counter to the argument that any job here that is paying 5k is unacceptable.....'going out' and 'fancy restaurants' oh my! Why would anybody relocate here, put up with all the difficulties of the language and culture and accept such a pittance? 'meat on the street' at the weekend, washed down with a bottle of Tsingtao from the corner store-anybody? I'm outta here in a few weeks-for this very reason...the pay is abysmal and there are too many deluded people who want to argue that 5k is 'enough' and carry on with their 'China exerience' as it were....
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papuadn



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saying "there is no realistic counter to an argument" of X, Y, or Z is begging the question. On the other hand, telling others what their "reality is" is a good fit for a communist republic Laughing

But, I read it here on Dave's, so I'll be phoning up chums from New Zealand and elsewhere to tell them their gainful employment of 6, 8, and 10 plus years must be a figment of their imagination. Razz

Now...what to do with associates in Latin America?!?
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rogerwilco



Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1549

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My last job in China was only 5000 a month.

But, free apartment, 10,000 airfare a year, and I only had to pay
300 a month for meals freshly cooked 6 days a week.

The school had a cook whose only job was to cook and do laundry for the foreign teachers.

16 hours a week, and a 3 minute walk to classes.
Adult tutoring jobs that came to my apartment building at 300 an hour.

People need to look at the whole package, and decide what is best for them.
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joe30



Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bear wrote:
That's your interpretation of an 'acceptable life', which is a fuzzy concept.

I admit, you won't be going out often or eating at fancy restaurants all the time.

As of most things in life it's only possible to say 'it depends'. If you're in your 40s, have a family, then yes, 5k a month probably wouldn't cut it. However, if you've just graduated (let's say 22), single, just wanting to have a good time. Then 5k is enough.

Or I could equally say if you're a spoilt brat (or entitled adult) who requires the latest iPhone, LV handbag, steak meals at the best restaurant in town, then yes, 5k a month won't cut it.

Horses for courses.


There's nothing 'spoiled' about wanting a high end smartphone and wanting to eat out at nice places, rather than have some cheap Chinese knock off phone and eating cooked rats on the street.

No, 5k isn't enough, I don't care who you are or what your age is. 25, 35, 45...no difference, 5k is peanuts. You won't be having a 'good time' on 5k, that's the whole point.

There's so many jobs that pay better it's mindblowing why people stay with these terrible jobs. I get it if you're only required to be in a couple of days a week or something, but 16-20 classes (i.e. most uni contracts) is damn well near a full teaching load.

I don't see how the avaliability of private tuition makes up for the main job paying peanuts. You could get private students if you worked for an Elementary or High School too. The only difference is your main job would pay twice or three times as much.
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The bear



Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe30 wrote:




There's nothing 'spoiled' about wanting a high end smartphone and wanting to eat out at nice places, rather than have some cheap Chinese knock off phone and eating cooked rats on the street.

No, 5k isn't enough, I don't care who you are or what your age is. 25, 35, 45...no difference, 5k is peanuts. You won't be having a 'good time' on 5k, that's the whole point.

There's so many jobs that pay better it's mindblowing why people stay with these terrible jobs. I get it if you're only required to be in a couple of days a week or something, but 16-20 classes (i.e. most uni contracts) is damn well near a full teaching load.

I don't see how the avaliability of private tuition makes up for the main job paying peanuts. You could get private students if you worked for an Elementary or High School too. The only difference is your main job would pay twice or three times as much.[/quote]

Let's just agree to disagree then.

If you believe 5,000 isn't enough, then nothing I say will convince you otherwise. Likewise, I'm hard to be persuaded that everybody should reject a 5,000/month job automatically.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...look at the package. Salary isn't everything. Sure I could get a 15,000/month job, on paper that's much better, right? Oh, no accommodation included, no flights included, 10 days holiday a year, 25 teaching hours a week, working weekends and evenings, split shifts, long commute, different teaching locations, etc. etc. etc.

Or I could be doing what I'm doing this year. 5,500/month, accommodation and all utilities provided (very large may I add, over 150 sqm in the city centre), 8 hours teaching a week (over 2 days), 5 minute walk to campus, long holidays (paid). I'll admit I have 4 hours of privates a week upping my income to 9,300 a month (I could be earning a lot more but don't want that this year).

This is my 'relaxing' year. Money isn't everything. Look at the package.
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