Job Discussion Forums

[Cebuman]

I have spoken to some recruiters who said that it is possible to get a Z visa processed once you get to China depending on which part of chin it is though. You would go in on a tourist visa and then they would process it for you there. I heard that the first visa for China needs to be done in myhome country but that's not what some recruiters have told me.

[backtochina2017]

If you ever do get a Z visa by first going to China on a tourist visa, then you will have to do a visa run to somewhere like Hong Kong.

What is the incentive for the school to pay for this? If you pay for the flight to China, none. They could just work you until you decide to leave. Then, they do the same with someone else, never really getting a Z visa for you.

It's not the prescribed way of doing things on either end. The recruiters will tell you differently because they don't have a dog in the fight. School pays them, you pay your way there. No contract has been signed which can be enforced. No visa documentation has been processed which can allow you to stay in China, but rather evidence to ban you from China for 3 or more years.

It also shows a gap in your employment if you keep doing this. When they look at your resume and passport, the repetition of tourist visas becomes suspect. So, you just get one of those 10 year visas? Ok, what happens 5 years later when you want to play by the rules? You have all this experience now, but how do you prove it?

The only reason they want you go to on a tourist visa is so they can have you work immediately. How do you collect your first month's salary without a Z visa, residence permit and FEC?

You can't go to your embassy or the PSB claiming they didn't pay you your illegal wages.

The only benefit for anyone to go on a tourist visa first is 1) They have money to last 3 months (figure 6,000 USD at least to cover travel costs, food, rent/hotel costs, entertainment, etc...), 2) They want to visit different parts of China first (which is a very valid reason actually, China is a huge country and significantly different from province to province) and 3) They have friends or family or are also considering being a student instead.

There are too many cons to outweigh the positives. You have 80% chance of being disappointed in a bad situation and 20% chance things will work out.

If you get your Z visa first, you have a big bargaining chip as well as security. If things go bad with your first school, you can transfer to another school more easily. They will more likely hire you at the new school than someone else abroad who doesn't have a Z visa yet.

There are new rules I understand where non-native English teachers are not allowed to get a Z visa. So, this is either making the cases of illegal teachers on the rise and Chinese are cracking down (you are more likely to get caught on a tourist visa) or the demand is so high that taking the initial time to get the Z visa will help lock in a job for the year. The school will not want to get rid of you. You will have an easier year.

That is probably in short what you can take from this. The easier it is to get work, the easier it will be to fall like a deck of cards. Without a Plan B (what happens if it doesn't work out?) and the money to fund it, what are you going to do? Why not do Plan B until you get your Z visa? If that means work at McDonald's for a few months, I would rather do that than gamble with an employer who knowingly wants you to work illegally for them. That's like entering into a relationship with someone who already has a spouse.

You've been warned.

[Non Sequitur]

[Cebuman]

[Cebuman]

Sorry why do you think someone without a Z visa needs $6000 for expenses? I would presumably have free accommodation from day 1 so I would not need to pay for a hotel. Surely the Z visa would be processed within a month of arriving there?

[jimpellow]

The recruiters are correct depending on the specifics. This has popped up a few times now and information and links exist on the board. You really need to look at what provinces are running the on-arrival pilot program. Since it is Beijing you should be fine.

As for the initial non-work visa, this is an interesting question. Most Chinese embassies no longer will process visas in third countries. Exceptions are reported to exist. Hong Kong is probably your best bet but not assured.

It seems unclear if you even need a visa at all to arrive. There is nothing officially made public (as China does not share its laws and regulations publicly) that you need to have an initial non-work visa on arrival which is then converted. I believe they just issue you the z-visa on arrival to enter China.

Since the pilot provinces are the same ones that offer the new transit visas(including Beijing), one would think you would be able to board a plane to the Chinese port-of-entry with that policy in hand along with proof of departure to a third country(go for the fake) and all would be well.

I have never heard of anyone having the balls or the knowledge to attempt this route so caution is advised.

My other caution is that the on-arrival pilot program still requires quite a lot of expense and time in terms of documentation BEFORE ARRIVAL that can only be completed by going home or paying a service. Their timeframe does not seem realistic at all in terms of having enough time to complete the required steps before arrival. Hence, they are either ignorant or misleading you. If they are asking you to enter past the point-of-entry with another visa that will be converted later, then the remarks made by others are right on. The only jurisdiction which officially allows this is Shanghai.

Wonder if we ran into each other in Cebu?

[backtochina2017]

Wow, we need to clear up a few things mentioned.

[Tazz]

The options being presented here are either- a] fly home to country of origin for the Z visa, or b] try to have the processing done after arrival in China. There is an alternative. Several colleagues have had documents sent to the country they resided in prior to coming to China.....I'm talking Bangkok, Manilla, Seoul, and in my case jakarta. Documents submitted-passport with Z visa collected after 3 days from the Chinese visa processing centre. You don't need to fly halfway around the world....and don't need take the risk of a dodgy employer.

[doogsville]

You can't get a Z visa in China, there would be no point anyway since a visa only exists to allow you to enter the country, and by definition you'd already be here. There are however trials going on of a system that allows you to enter China on a tourist visa, and then have a work permit and resident permit issued on arrival. This can be done in Guangdong province, but I have no information about Beijing. It would seem weird if you couldn't do it in Beijing though. I would guess it's all part of the new A B C system of visas they're bringing in this year.

Check this thread for further information. http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=1261581&highlight=#1261581

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

When traveling to some countries that require a visa from the U.S., there is a TWV (traveler without visa) provision that'll allow you on the plane, but you'll be accompanied by an armed guard as you sit in an area separate from the other travelers while you wait. I don't think China is one of those countries that allows TWVs to arrive and sort things out. Anyone who would attempt such a thing would be crazy. If you are already in your home country, why not just go with the flow and do things properly?

I'll never understand why so many people are willing to go galavanting into the unknown on the other side of the world when they won't even take a bus to the other side of their own country or town.

[Tazz]

Oh dear.....wish some people would read the actual thread b4 posting.... He's in Korea. he doesn't want to go 'galavanting home'...that was the whole purpose of the original enquiry. Alternatives.....

[Cebuman]

SO I can go to Seoul to the Chinese embassy there and process my Z visa can I? Anyway the interview was the recruiter not the school. I thought it was going to be the school. So it looks like I will be going to Taiwan now but it's closer to Cebu anyway.

[asiannationmc]

From an email from That's Beijing

[jimpellow]

BackToChina "Yes, the most common ones you would need are the L tourist visa which takes 4 days to process and the Z visa which also takes 4 days, but for this you need to get more documents like college diploma authentication, physical and work permit with invitation letter. This extends the time to get all this done."
-Again, you do not need a visa to arrive in China if it is at a port-of-entry which is in a jurisdiction which offers a transit visa. This "enhanced" transit visa popped up after 2013-2014 when tourism was negatively affected and local movers and shakers looked for a way to lessen Beijing's stricter regulations about issuing visas. It is a backdoor to China for tourism which Beijing has tolerated. People can arrive and are granted a 72 to 144 hour transit visa depending on the locale. They must stay within and leave from the jurisdiction that issued it. They must leave to a third country and show a ticket as proof. I would bring a printout of the jurisdiction's transit visa policy along to show any non-believing airline or immigration personnel.

Hence, if a teacher were to arrive at a port-of-entry for Jiangsu for a position in Nanjing, they do not need a visa to get to Jiangsu as it offers a 144 hour on-arrival transit visa.

"No they don't. You have to get the Z visa at the Chinese embassy outside of mainland China. ."
Again, this depends on the province as of mid last year. It is further complicated by the new online application with the A,B,C ranking system. However, the gist is that you arrive at a port-of-entry with certain documentation in hand and you are issued "something" that allows you to enter the county for purposes of applying for a work-visa. Whether it is a z-visa which allows a one-time entry for such a purpose or a picture of Mao naked, the point is that it gets you in legally.

The point of this was that the poster was looking for the most cost and time effective way of entering China legally to work. As he was considering Beijing, it is possible to arrive at the airport for a transit visa. I personally would have paid a certain service 10 bucks to buy me the proof of departure ticket to the third country which is later cancelled.

So if one can make it to the port-of-entry there is nothing about having to have a visa "converted" at the airport to enter for the purposes of work under the new pilot program. This oft used term is misleading as one visa is cancelled and another one issued. People assume this based on the past and their own insecurities about attempting something so seemingly bold.

"In this case Hong Kong or back in their home country"
-Whether the HK powers-to-be will issue a z-visa has been dependent on the policy of the jurisdiction where the work permit will be issued. It is not a panacea. Actually, this had not been the case for Beijing for quite some time as they previously required the applicant to return to his home country.

"I would post links if any to such a pilot program."
I have posted links on the transit visa along with these two new pilot programs before on this board. As I see it, it is the responsibility of anyone who wishes to respond to do their own research before offering advice that can highly affect the outcome for another human being.

[backtochina2017]