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NET or International school
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claka77



Joined: 21 May 2015
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:43 am    Post subject: NET or International school Reply with quote

I'm a 39 year old who has previously taught in Korea and southern China. In both countries, I did a little primary school work (Epik in Korea and in Shenzhen at the Futian education board via an outsourcing company). I'm currently back in Australia studying a masters in primary teaching. If I don't stay in Australia I may reconsider work overseas with Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia and Vietnam among places I'm thinking of working in (I'd prefer not to go back to mainland China but I'll consider commuting from Shenzhen to Hk if the housing costs make it worth the difference). For HK, will my age count against me? Is it easier to get an international job or a HK Net role (I've applied before with no luck)? Is housing provided in both jobs or would I need a huge deposit for a single (or shared) rental? Will I have to deal with 'helicopter parents' at an international school?I'd love to live in Hk if there's work that's available and pays well. I appreciate any thoughts or advice.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 658

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: NET or International school Reply with quote

claka77 wrote:
For HK, will my age count against me?


No problems with your age here.

claka77 wrote:
Is it easier to get an international job or a HK Net role (I've applied before with no luck)?


Both will be difficult to get as competition is high. International schools prefer teachers with QTS and home country teaching experience. The EDB NET scheme has officially lower requirements but in reality it is also very difficult to get into. Teachers with the relevant qualifications AND HK teaching experience usually have a better chance of gaining admission to the EDB NET scheme than those applying from overseas.

claka77 wrote:
Is housing provided in both jobs or would I need a huge deposit for a single (or shared) rental?


Housing is NOT typically provided. Instead there are allowances for housing on the EDB NET scheme and many international school positions. You will need up to 3 and 1/2 months worth of rent to cover the initial 2 months upfront payment, 1 month security deposit and half a month for the agent's commission. Note this does not usually apply for flat shares so that could be one way to go if you want to avoid the large upfront costs.

claka77 wrote:
Will I have to deal with 'helicopter parents' at an international school?


This very much depends and YMMV. I tutor several students from international schools and as you might expect, their parents are a mixed bunch. Some are very relaxed and progressive, some are very 'competitive' and pushy while others are somewhere in-between.
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Cebuman



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a qualified teacher with QTS from the UK and I applied to a few international schools in HK recently but I didn't hear a word. I asked one teacher how much she gets but she wouldn't say except she has to pay her own accommodation. I think I saw a post of another teacher on $80k a year in HK without accommodation too. You need to be a qualified teacher to get into an international school. You also need to be a qualified teacher (or they prefer it) to be a NET I think. I am looking for an international job because at the moment I have just been teaching at hakwons in Korea and now PS in Taiwan is starting (you need to be a qualified teacher to teach PS in Taiwan but not in Korea.) Has the OP got QTS in Australia then?
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claka77



Joined: 21 May 2015
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the moment I haven't (got qts) however I will be in June/July this year. The housing assistance (or non offer of it) doesn't surprise me Sad I guess it's something else I'll have to consider.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 658

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

claka77 wrote:
The housing assistance (or non offer of it) doesn't surprise me Sad I guess it's something else I'll have to consider.


Don't forget, Hong Kong has some of the highest ESL salaries in the world. Plenty of teachers make over USD 100K / year. Hong Kong remains a very safe, convenient and cosmopolitan city (with fast and uncensored internet access). So yes, there are some tradeoffs to consider against those (significant) benefits.

Rent is one of the main ones. But even with rent, there are options. Flat shares are common, do your research and you will find a nice one without having to put down significant deposits. If you want your own place, similarly, do your research on websites such as squarefoot and you will find reasonable flats that won't break the bank. Consider living a bit further out in the New Territories for example. Or on one of the outer islands (which have their own more laid-back vibe) which have decent ferry connections into town.

Don't let the lack of provided accommodation put you off. It's far from the deal-breaker many make it out to be.
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Cebuman



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are these high ESL salaries? I only know the NET jobs pay high salaries. Everything else pays like 20.000 without accommodation or 12.000 with. That's what I saw on tefl.com anyway. I am interested though because I will be in nearby Taiwan and PS positions only pay 69,950 TWD per month with a masters degree. It's £1800 gross but there is 18% tax on it for the first 183 days when it becomes 5%. To be honest, I don't know how they can recruit teachers really as you have to be a licensed teacher to work at PS in Taiwan and any teacher with qTS can get loads more at an international school. I have taken it on though as it is near my GF in Cebu. But if I could get on the NET scheme jobs or something high paying in HK, I would consider moving there. NETS are the only high paying jobs I know of in HK.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 658

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cebuman wrote:
Where are these high ESL salaries? I only know the NET jobs pay high salaries. Everything else pays like 20.000 without accommodation or 12.000 with. That's what I saw on tefl.com anyway


Reposting what I mentioned on the other thread regarding salaries:

Most language centre work averages between HKD 18-25K
Kindergarten work can go up to HKD 30K.
Local school work for a NET, I would guess between HKD 20-30K on average (depending on position)
EDB NET scheme (with allowance) starts at around HKD 45K and goes up to 75K
Intl school positions start around 30K and go up to around 80K
Tutors can earn anything from 0 to over 100K depending on many factors.

In addition I would say that many teachers take on private tuition on the side. Even with just a few students per week, this can easily add up to an extra 5-10K per month. With this in mind, even an average teacher working a standard language centre post can easily earn over 30K / month. Many earn much more.
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Cebuman



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is there no one on the Taiwan threads? Yes if you do privates (anywhere) you can considerably increase your income. But can you really make 10,000 in privates a month in HK during the evenings or weekends? In Korea I had just 3 private students paying 30,000 won so about $90 a week or $360 a month. You would need 10 students at least I would imagine to make 10k HKD extra a month. That's quite hard to find and build up
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 658

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cebuman wrote:
But can you really make 10,000 in privates a month in HK during the evenings or weekends? In Korea I had just 3 private students paying 30,000 won so about $90 a week or $360 a month. You would need 10 students at least I would imagine to make 10k HKD extra a month. That's quite hard to find and build up


Experienced tutors can usually charge between HK 400 - 500 / hr. As I said, demand for good tutors is high so if you are any good, usually the referrals will quickly kick in. Even if you are just a very mediocre teacher, you will still be able to find students relatively easily (if you want to). For the purposes of this example let's take an average of HK 450 / hr.

With just 3 students (as per your example) a week at 450 / hr, that's HK 1,350 per week and HK 5,400 per month.
With 6 students a week (still very achievable) that's HK 2,700 per week and HK 10,800 per month.

Scale up and down as appropriate. Obviously if you charge more you can work less hours for the same income and vice versa. I'm oversimplifying the issue for the purposes of illustration but the point is 5-10K in extra income is very achievable for the majority of teachers here.

P.S. I heard from an experienced tutor in Taiwan that most tutors charge between TWD 800 - 1200 per hour.
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Cebuman



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's £20-£30 per hour then. But I get $16 per hour teaching online so I wonder whether it's worth travelling for 20-30 an hour.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 658

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cebuman wrote:
That's £20-£30 per hour then. But I get $16 per hour teaching online so I wonder whether it's worth travelling for 20-30 an hour.


You refer to multiple currencies in your post so lets normalise them all to USD for comparison. (just to be clear we are referring to Taiwan here)

Online rate: USD $16
Tutoring rate: USD $25 - 38 (average USD $31.5)

So you are looking at 1-1 tutoring being worth potentially double the hourly rate of online tutoring, or more. So whether it's worthwhile for you depends on how you organise yourself. If there is lots of travelling time to lessons then perhaps not. But if you can minimise travel time OR, even better, have the students come to you (no travel time at all) then the conclusion is that 1-1 tutoring is preferable in terms of income.
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Cebuman



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what's the average honk kong private tutor rate them if we are talking Taiwan here? It's the quantity really. I did 22 30min slots online last weekend and over a period of 4 or 5 days, I managed to complete about 50 slots. So 25 hours in less than a week. I am actually teaching full time online atm cos I got done over with my day job. But I leave here next Saturday for Taiwan where I will start another day job soon. Yes I think you are right, minimise your travelling time and try and get students to come to you (or meet them at the café in your street).
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 658

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cebuman wrote:
what's the average honk kong private tutor rate them if we are talking Taiwan here?


I mentioned it above but I'll repeat it again here. The average rate here in Hong Kong for experienced tutors is HK 400 - 500 / hr (approx USD $50 - 65).

Cebuman wrote:
It's the quantity really. I did 22 30min slots online last weekend and over a period of 4 or 5 days, I managed to complete about 50 slots. So 25 hours in less than a week. I am actually teaching full time online atm cos I got done over with my day job.


So you managed around 25 hours at USD $16 / hr? That's USD $400 for the week. Not bad for online work but you can do much better with face-to-face tuition if you set yourself up right. For reference I make more than that in just one day.
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Cebuman



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeh it really is a beautiful company. The trouble is you never know how many students will book you per day. You just have to sit and watch. Today has not been very good. Just 8 slots all day so 4 hours $64. It's tax free too. So although I have been done over by my hakwon owner (he gave all my classes to a newly arrived teacher cos he hasn't got enough students to pay everyone), I am theoretically going to make the same or almost the same as working full time (NET) at the hakwon (or any hakwon for that matter). The net salary I have been getting is around 2.0m won which I think is about $1700. As of today, I have $996 in my online account for the month but there is still a week to go so I could make another $500 or more yet. So actually I am quietly chuckling to myself living here technically illegally on my employers visa although I have applied for another visa, a D 10 visa which allows you to look for work in Korea for 6 months. I would like to chat to you in HK maybe sometime about private tutoring there as I need to make more money really and this PS position doesn't pay much to be honest. I will apply to be a NET I think but it's highly competitive and I just lost my last reference calling my employer a p lonker.
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CEB



Joined: 30 Oct 2013
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 million won per month! That's what I made in Korea in my first job 15 years ago. That blows!
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