Job Discussion Forums

[Siobhan 22]

Well. the PGCE is a full-time one-year postgraduate course which means you get an official teaching licence and you have a good grounding in pedagogy and a minimum of 6-weeks pedagocical practice.

The CELTA (or TEFL) - if full time - can be done in one month.

[Shookran]

There are two versions of the PGCE: Level 6 and Level 7

1. Professional Graduate Certificate in Education (This is Level 6 and I believe it is the most common PGCE)

2. Post Graduate Certificate in Education (This is what you qualify with if you have a Master's before starting the PGCE and some components of this one are studied at Level 7, Master's level, meaning more essays, longer essays and 120 hours of teaching practice instead of 100). This PGCE is also known as PGCertEd and is equivalent to the DELTA.

I graduated with the latter [number 2.] as I already had a Master's. I suppose you would only know about this distinction if you'd actually done a PGCE as you would encounter those students in your cohort who did or did not already have a Master's. I'm not sure if it's common knowldge. I think it's well worth pointing out to recruiters if you have this higher-level PGCE. Some of this PGCE can be counted as credits for TEFL and TESOL Master's degrees. All this is is particularly useful if you have a not-so-related Master's for the ESL/EFL jobs in Saudi. You would in effect have a part-TEFL Master's in your Level 7 PGCE. As it happens, I am in this situation, but how to word it and explain it succinctly and convincingly in a CV and in interviews is the problem. Taking into account how Saudis think, what is the best way to sell yourself using this advantage in qualifications? Claiming to have a TEFL Master's would be a no-no becuase they would want to see the certificate and attest it, which you wouldn't have, and then a half-arsed explanation would probably fall on deaf ears. The Master's level PGCE is not technically recognised as a Master's degree even though it is studied at that level. But could you call it something like a 'PGCE Master's Level'? And would that be attractive to Saudi employers?

[nomad soul]

[currentaffairs]

Shookran: I have never heard of 1). PGCE by definition means Postgraduate Certificate of Education. This is the standard qualification. The other course you mention is perhaps new or you have mixed terms up. You don't need an MA to study for a PGCE.

There is actually not a lot of overlap between modules that you study on a PGCE program and what you might study on an MA in TESOL course. The former is focused on primary or secondary education and the latter on such things as language acquisition and linguistics. I have looked into this before and universities in the UK firstly don't do much credit transfer and secondly really need modules to match up precisely before allowing you any credit.

Another important point that many people (including staff in admissions) don't know is that there is a five-year cut off point for using the PGCE for credit transfer. I am fairly sure that this is standard although you should check with the relevant department when applying.

[AV15]

The PGCE, while containing Masters levels modules, isn't anything like a full MA.

MA = 180 credits.
Post Graduate Diploma = 120 credits
Post Graduate Certificate = 60 credits

It's the equivilant of one third of an MA - so not really all that amazing, academically speaking.

What makes the PGCE valuable is at the end of the course you're awarded QTS (providing you don't do one of those mickey mouse online courses). It's the QTS that gets you the bigger salaries and the better employers.

[babur]

The PGCE is your entry into the teaching profession. Many language BAs include one. You're required to pass the teaching practice part. It's the nuts & bolts of teaching.

An MA is the icing on the cake. In the UK there's no supervised teaching practice. You don't even have to provide any evidence of your teaching career. A cheque'll do.

[Shookran]

@nomad soul, thanks very much for all your advice!

@currentaffairs, your #1 isn't the same as my #1 so please read my post again. Try also really hard to find where I have said that you need an MA to study for a PGCE, I think you'll discover that I didn't say that. I said that you can study the PGCE at two levels, undergraduate and post-graduate (Master's). Also you say that the PGCE is focused on Primary or Secondary education (i.e. school education, UK compulsory-age education); don't forget that a PGCE can also be focused on post-compulsory, Adult FE college education. Mine is. My PGCE specialisms are ESOL and Functional Skills English. This is post-school, college education not school PGCE. This is the most commonly known disctinction when it comes to PGCEs. However, a ruling was made in recent years that allows holders of the post-compulsory PGCE to teach in schools as well.

@AV15, you're certainly not awarded QTS at the end of the PGCE course. First, there is a disctinction between the schools (UK compulsory age) and Adult (UK post-compulsory age) QTS. The schools one is called QTS but the Adult one is called QTLS. Both carry the same value. In order to be awarded QTS you have to go through a further year or year and a half on a mini-course at a college or school with further observations and 'supporting teaching professional' and do yet another test, and pay more money. I have not bothered with this QTS thing. To me it stinks of government money-making scam, but that's just my opinion. You actually don't need it, and any employer who requires this is being silly. They ought to scrap this waste-of-time QTS/QTLS.

@babur, you're not only required to pass the teaching practice part, i.e. you have to hit a certain number of Ofsted criteria at least twice in 7 or 8 formal observations. You also have to pass the mountain of essay tasks, around 14 lengthy essays in my case!

I graduated with the PGCE in 2016, from a British university, in London, England, not years or decades ago, so I have fresh knowledge about it. Rulings, terms and courses change over time so it would be wise to state what decade your knowledge of the PGCE comes from, it may not apply now.

[currentaffairs]

You have some good information but some of it is unclear, Shookran. You specifically say that you can obtain a PGCE if you have an MA. You say this is what you qualify for if you have an MA. You then say that this PGCE is also called a PGCertEd. I think you are mixing up terminology because a PGCE is a standard postgrad teaching qualification and you only need a BA to get on a course.

[Shookran]

[siologen]

[Shookran]

[siologen]

[1st Sgt Welsh]

[Shookran]

[1st Sgt Welsh]