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Privates, HS or Adult Teaching Jobs
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CNexpatesl



Joined: 27 May 2015
Posts: 163

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Privates, HS or Adult Teaching Jobs Reply with quote

How easily attainable are privates in HCMC? What hourly payment rate could you expect to charge them these days?

Also, how easy it to land high school to adult age teaching jobs during the summer or Fall term? Thanks in advance.
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TRH



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 340
Location: Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: Privates, HS or Adult Teaching Jobs Reply with quote

CNexpatesl wrote:
How easily attainable are privates in HCMC? What hourly payment rate could you expect to charge them these days?
It is incredibly easy if you live in an apartment. I took in two classes at a time (MW and TTh) and was constantly turning people away just from being approached by people in my building. You will not have to advertise; you will be approached in the elevator. Also privates are technically illegal so restricting your students to residents of the same building keeps the profile low. It's not like having motorbikes parked in front of your house every evening.

I tried to keep groups to 4-6. That size works best for pair work and other conversational exercises and keeps the cost down for students. I tried to total $20 US/hour equivalent and had my wife handle all the money. Of course. if you're single, the last is not an option. The idea is that if there ever was a question, the Vietnamese is the one in business, not you.

CNexpatesl wrote:
Also, how easy it to land high school to adult age teaching jobs during the summer or Fall term? Thanks in advance.
Early summer is maybe the worst time with the exception of Tet, but if you are willing to do public school work, most of that hiring starts in August. Most public school work was Middle School when I taught, but I understand that may be moving upward into High Schools as the programs develop.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Privates, HS or Adult Teaching Jobs Reply with quote

TRH wrote:
I tried to keep groups to 4-6. That size works best for pair work and other conversational exercises and keeps the cost down for students. I tried to total $20 US/hour equivalent and had my wife handle all the money.


Wow, USD 20 seems low for a group of 4-6 students (from my perspective). Unless that's USD 20 per student per hour?
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TRH



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 340
Location: Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Privates, HS or Adult Teaching Jobs Reply with quote

Jmbf wrote:
Wow, USD 20 seems low for a group of 4-6 students (from my perspective). Unless that's USD 20 per student per hour?
Does your current job pay $80/hr? If it does, I suggest you stick with it and forget about private lessons. My current part time at a Japanese University in Hawaii pays $42.

In fact I am fairly sure that at least two of my private students made more than I did. One was a corporate HR guy at a German Pharma company, the other, in a different class, was the CEO of his small manufacturing company. Nevertheless, I didn't have a way to charge them more than the others in the class who surely made less. My class of doctors also included a medical school student.

At $5/hr, they were all paying more than evening classes at all but the most expensive language centers. I did some research on that before starting. At some point you may price yourself out of the market.
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Dream_Seller



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Public schools wont be fantastic due to the treatment you will both receive and see.

Adult classes will be given to the most experienced, qualified or connected within your language center. 70% of the market is for young learners. The top teachers probably avoid teaching private classes as they see it as not benefiting them both financially and in the long run.

Private classes are not well received as say China. The online teaching industry is growing in China but Vietnam only has a few and group classes are mainly pushed. By all means do what gives you the best results. Apply the 80/20 rule.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: Privates, HS or Adult Teaching Jobs Reply with quote

TRH wrote:
Does your current job pay $80/hr?


Yes it does.

TRH wrote:
I didn't have a way to charge them more than the others in the class who surely made less. My class of doctors also included a medical school student. At $5/hr, they were all paying more than evening classes at all but the most expensive language centers. I did some research on that before starting. At some point you may price yourself out of the market.


Don't take this the wrong way but a few things don't make sense to me.

1. If you are a good teacher and in demand as you say, then the simple economics of supply and demand kick in. Sure, there may be far fewer students willing to pay more, but there will still be some. From my own experience, if your reputation is good enough then you can be a bit more selective with the students you take on.

2. If USD 20 / hr is the best you can get from a group class of 4-6, then doesn't it make more sense to pursue online work? Quite a few teachers are recently reporting being able to secure decent online work at USD 15-20 / hr. Compared to the extra risks, hassle and effort required to manage group classes, surely the (relatively easy) online work would be the way to go?
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LarssonCrew



Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1288

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can confirm 180-200 RMB an hour is possible online.

That's $26-29.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 10957
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmbf wrote:
Quote:
Does your current job pay $80/hr?

Yes it does.

For clarification, I believe you're in Hong Kong and that you make a living giving private lessons. (Readers might get the impression this is what they could earn in Vietnam.)
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TRH



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 340
Location: Hawaii

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: Privates, HS or Adult Teaching Jobs Reply with quote

Jmbf wrote:
TRH wrote:
Does your current job pay $80/hr?


Yes it does.
Please do tell. I am sure that everyone here would like to know where they can make $80 in ESL. You state that online work pays 15-20. Perhaps you run an online school and collect $40 from students while paying teachers $15.

Also did I say that I couldn't have made more? I thought I fairly clearly implied the exact opposite. Did I say that my objective was to make as much as possible from my neighbors? Teaching private lessons allowed me to make friends that I still have. My class of doctors taught me as much as I taught them. If someone's idea in life is limited to making as much money as possible, ESL is hardly the right career.
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TRH



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 340
Location: Hawaii

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Jmbf wrote:
Quote:
Does your current job pay $80/hr?

Yes it does.

For clarification, I believe you're in Hong Kong and that you make a living giving private lessons. (Readers might get the impression this is what they could earn in Vietnam.)
In Vietnam, you won't have to pay 74 million VND a moth for an apartment either. https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/hong-kong?currency=VND
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:56 am    Post subject: Re: Privates, HS or Adult Teaching Jobs Reply with quote

TRH wrote:
I am sure that everyone here would like to know where they can make $80 in ESL.


Nomad Soul covered the basics with her post just above. Suffice to say it is possible and I've detailed what I do quite extensively in my previous posts. Feel free to have a look. Anyways, that's kind of beside the point and I don't want to derail this thread any further.

TRH wrote:
You state that online work pays 15-20.


Not just me, there's plenty of teachers reporting making that online and more (as per LarssonCrew's post). Now, you shouldn't assume that this kind of work is easy to come by, but it does seem very possible for a dedicated and hard-working teacher.

TRH wrote:
Also did I say that I couldn't have made more? I thought I fairly clearly implied the exact opposite. Did I say that my objective was to make as much as possible from my neighbors? Teaching private lessons allowed me to make friends that I still have. My class of doctors taught me as much as I taught them. If someone's idea in life is limited to making as much money as possible, ESL is hardly the right career.


I thinking more along the lines of answering the OP's original question so thank you for your input on that. So what would the average rate be for a 1-1 private lesson there?
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TRH



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 340
Location: Hawaii

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:30 am    Post subject: Re: Privates, HS or Adult Teaching Jobs Reply with quote

Jmbf wrote:
I thinking more along the lines of answering the OP's original question so thank you for your input on that. So what would the average rate be for a 1-1 private lesson there?
May I respectfully suggest that your Hong Kong/China experience is somewhat irrelevant to the OP's question. I answered based on my experience in Vietnam.

That said, I think that the $20 that I made was minimal (and more than online wages of $15-20) but as I stated you can't go too much over the cost per hour of adult evening classes at the top centers. If you do, why shouldn't your students simply go there. If, to make more money, you pack in too many students, the same applies. Some evening adult English center classes may be only 10-15 students so what does the private class student benefit if your class is that large or larger? I realize there are people in Vietnam who are capable of paying more than $20 for 1 on 1 lessons, they just didn't live on my street. I don't see anyone popping up here and describing such lessons, even those who live and work "downtown."

Of course my opinions may be a bit unusual in that I actually enjoyed public school teaching and wouldn't have traded it for any other teaching experience while in Vietnam. I also taught adult classes, teens and IELTS prep at my center, but I still considered my real job to be at the middle school where I spent three years. Private lessons were simply a sideline for me.
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sigmoid



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1217

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The top teachers probably avoid teaching private classes as they see it as not benefiting them both financially and in the long run.


Would certainly concur. For various reasons the privates market in VN, even in the big cities, is not particularly lucrative or reliable.

Most locals don't make much money, learning English is primarily a social activity, traveling around is a major pain, students are already busy as heck, etc.

If you have a situation like what TRH describes, it can be a good financial supplement and change of pace, but probably not something you could exclusively live off of.

If you could get a dozen or more Japanese or Korean expat kids, it may be possible.

In short, if you want to enjoy what Vietnam (and most of the rest of ASEAN) has to offer (warm weather, low cost of living, relaxed atmosphere, etc.), you have to factor in less income.

If you are really hung up about making money, consider opening up a restaurant.
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skarper



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 473

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adults can't or won't pay for the level of service they demand. You need to put about 6 students together and have them all paying about 5usd an hour. They won't or can't do that.

They want to be in a group of 1 or 2 at peak hours [7pm] and pay about 5 USD between them.

You can work on this and cobble together the exceptions to this rule but finding someone willing to pay 20-30 USD an hour for a 1-1 class or half a dozen compatible students who can all come at the same time, study the same stuff and get along together is a challenge.

So it is hard to make a living doing this in Vietnam. I have heard of a few people trying but it usually founders on this issue.

Kids - maybe you could make it work but you'd need a Vietnamese working with you. Even then it might take years to make a success of it.

Privates can be a useful fill in or supplement. But the market is weak and then there are the legal issues. People have been fined and deported for doing this.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Privates, HS or Adult Teaching Jobs Reply with quote

TRH wrote:
May I respectfully suggest that your Hong Kong/China experience is somewhat irrelevant to the OP's question.


I never said that it was. My off-topic comments were only in response to your questions to me Very Happy

Back to the point, I understand that the cost of living is lower there and the private market may not be as lucrative but still, maintaining a decent hourly rate is important. If a teacher could command at least USD 25- 30 / hr from private lessons (which seems possible given your comments that USD 20 / hr was on the low side) then that would make more sense. Otherwise from a practical point of view, online lessons would seem a much more effective way to supplement a teachers income.
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