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School A not letting me go
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ebparsa



Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 35
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: School A not letting me go Reply with quote

Hello all,

I am afraid I may have landed myself in a pickle, as I have never been to China and I don't really know how things work there.
Hence, I thought I share my dilemma with you fine people in the hopes of getting some suggestions from you. If you could kindly just state what you would do, if you were me and why.
Thank you in advance,

A few months ago I was contacted by School A in central China. After some negotiations, I signed a contract with them to start on Sept 1st except it is August 23rd and I am still sitting here in Canada. Not to forget that I would still need a week to obtain a visa from the moment I have my work permit.
I have been in touch with this school and kept them in the loop at every step while preparing my documents to show my sincere desire to go to China. Finally, I submitted everything to them a month ago ( it would be 1 month tomorrow).

Now, I must say that communication has been an issue as the lines of communications have broken down twice already. The first time I had to wait for 2 weeks to get a response from her. After two long weeks she apologized stating that she was on vacation, even though my email was sent weeks before the cutoff date she herself had given me previously.

The second time about 2 weeks ago. I inquired about my application and whether they had submitted my application with the State Bureau and if yes, when. This time I had to wait for 3 days. Now her excuse this time was that her daughter was sick and she didn't have time to check her email, which is a bit odd as we all have a smartphone nowadays and we can check our emails anywhere we want.

Anyhow, while waiting for school A to respond, school B (a school in southern China) approached me and offered me a good salary. They really impressed me with their level professionalism and their speedy way of handling things, which was quite refreshing. So, we signed a contract and I forwarded all my documents to them as I already had everything.

Now, when school B tried to apply for a work permit, they saw in the system that school A had already applied for a work permit. I didn't know I was already in the system because School A would not communicate properly. Also, I didn't know that this database (belonging to State Bureau of Foreign Experts) is a national database. I thought it is provincial. As a result, School B was able to see the name of School A being associated with my name.

School B then suggested that they could contact school A on my behalf and ask them to revoke their application, which was a bit odd to me as I thought: "why would school A let me go with Sep 1st being around the corner?"
Anyways, I told them to hold off and I emailed school A myself telling them politely that I am tired of waiting. I also hinted towards their lack of proper communication leading me to talk to other schools and that I thought it would be best to let me go. Basically, I asked them to revoke my application on their end so that, School B could submit theirs.

I waited for a day and since I received no response, I let school B email them the same thing in Chinese followed by a telephone call.
Bottom line is: School A refused to let me go and emailed me last night to state the same thing. Their arguments is that if this was requested a few months ago, they would have done it but at this point, they really need me and they can't find anyone else and that my work permit would be ready very soon. For the record, they are not being aggressive. They are almost begging me to come and are being very apologetic.

On the other hand, the recruiter is already looking for other ways to see if they could contact State Bureau Of Foreign Expert to have my application removed from the system.

Your thoughts are appreciated!


Last edited by ebparsa on Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:57 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Foo_Fighters_Dave



Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stick with School A. Sounds like they have the work permit or documents ready to send to you. Are your documents ready on your end? Things take time now due to new laws being enacted from what I have been reading.
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ebparsa



Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 35
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Foo_Fighters_Dave wrote:
Stick with School A. Sounds like they have the work permit or documents ready to send to you. Are your documents ready on your end? Things take time now due to new laws being enacted from what I have been reading.


My documents were ready a month ago. As you know, they won't submit any application before your documents are ready.

The funny thing is: School B tells me that they could secure me a work permit within 10 days. I tend to believe them because a) from their attitude I can see they are pretty efficient at what they do. b) different provinces have different processing times.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Putting School B onto A was a good move and I would have done that first up. There is a big issue with 'face' and for A to be seen as stuffing things up puts pressure on them.
If it's a full national U then freshers will be doing military training for Sept.
Welcome to China. If this is the worst that happens you're ahead.
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ebparsa



Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 35
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
Putting School B onto A was a good move and I would have done that first up. There is a big issue with 'face' and for A to be seen as stuffing things up puts pressure on them.
If it's a full national U then freshers will be doing military training for Sept.
Welcome to China. If this is the worst that happens you're ahead.


Face? If you mean by that "loss of face" then I know exactly what you mean as that is huge in Thailand too.

Military training? Oooh that explains what she told me last night. Yes, it is a university. She said that I shouldn't worry because classes won't actually start before end of September or the beginning of October.

The problem I am having is that I actually like school B more but I am afraid if I go for it, school A might refuse to revoke my application and I end up without a job in the first semester.
The recruiter with school B says that they can't do it. It is illegal, he says.

On the other hand, I am also thinking about 1 bird in the hand is probably better than 2 in the bush.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah 'face' as in 'loss of'.
Go with A IMHO. That is, provided it ticks the other boxes - see job offer checklist thread for suggestions.
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Marcos Cisneros



Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject: Work Permit Reply with quote

In the old days everything in China was not interconnected and you could have easily changed from A to B. Those were the old days.

These days, however, all PSB and FEB documents are computer centralized through Beijing. Once you are in the system, you are in the system.

Yes, School A was dragging their feet, as often happens in China, but they did enter you into the system and they did secure you or are securing you the papers. To accommodate your new wishes, it would have required them to withdraw your application entirely. Frankly, the PSB doesn't give a damn about withdrawn applications ... it is the FEB that pays more attention these days to withdrawn and/or cancelled documents, and that is where the problem would have occurred.

All of that being said, the lackadaisical attitude of School A would definitely cause me angst. For me it is not a good omen. While some posters will tell you that it is typical of China, my own experience was more so not then yes. A competent FAO means a decent stay for the foreign teacher and an incompetent FAO means a year of hell.

In this case, just hold your breath and do the best you can for one year. There are so, so many jobs in China that at the end of one year, if this one is problematic, you will easily be able to find another.
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ebparsa



Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 35
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Work Permit Reply with quote

Marcos Cisneros wrote:
In the old days everything in China was not interconnected and you could have easily changed from A to B. Those were the old days.

These days, however, all PSB and FEB documents are computer centralized through Beijing. Once you are in the system, you are in the system.

Yes, School A was dragging their feet, as often happens in China, but they did enter you into the system and they did secure you or are securing you the papers. To accommodate your new wishes, it would have required them to withdraw your application entirely. Frankly, the PSB doesn't give a damn about withdrawn applications ... it is the FEB that pays more attention these days to withdrawn and/or cancelled documents, and that is where the problem would have occurred.

All of that being said, the lackadaisical attitude of School A would definitely cause me angst. For me it is not a good omen. While some posters will tell you that it is typical of China, my own experience was more so not then yes. A competent FAO means a decent stay for the foreign teacher and an incompetent FAO means a year of hell.

In this case, just hold your breath and do the best you can for one year. There are so, so many jobs in China that at the end of one year, if this one is problematic, you will easily be able to find another.


Exactly, to me her sluggish laid back attitude is a red flag. If someone ignores your email for two long weeks, it means she won't care about your needs, once landed there either. I know I can bite the bullet and put up with it for one year because deep inside I know they can't be as bad as Thai people. On the other hand, school B is the opposite and they offer more money too.


Last edited by ebparsa on Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ebparsa



Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 35
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
Yeah 'face' as in 'loss of'.
Go with A IMHO. That is, provided it ticks the other boxes - see job offer checklist thread for suggestions.


Have you ever heard of a school refusing to revoke your application out of spite in order to ensure nobody else can hire you for a semester?
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it has come up in years past.
Nothing specific.
Bud P might weigh in as his exp is way more than mine. I'd go with A. See how they work out.
It's accom airfares paid winter holiday etc that would be exercising my mind right now. Also subject(s) and teaching hours. Although timetable stuff is likely not available until day before classes start.
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ebparsa



Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 35
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
I think it has come up in years past.
Nothing specific.
Bud P might weigh in as his exp is way more than mine. I'd go with A. See how they work out.
It's accom airfares paid winter holiday etc that would be exercising my mind right now. Also subject(s) and teaching hours. Although timetable stuff is likely not available until day before classes start.


Oh yeah, school A provides all of the above. However, school B offers more. Way more.... but I agree, school A is almost a sure thing.
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Marcos Cisneros



Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject: Money and China Reply with quote

Dear OP,

In China don't be blinded by monetary considerations. Indeed, they are important and indeed it impacts all of our lives.

That being said, you need to put your ears to the ground, so to speak, and see what you can learn about both schools. Google or Baidu will usually turn up something as will Linkled.

There are also at least three other major ESL China sites out there on the Net which I cannot name for politeness and decorum. This site is by the far the best informed but you might be able to glean something somewhere else.

And frankly, yes, do try to interview at least two teachers from each school. If either school cannot or will not put you in contact with past teachers, then consider that a warning.

I read continuously in your posts that everything at school B is better. This is China, after all, and that kind of logic might be very spurious. As I said, your personal experiences at the school will turn on the FAO, and the accommodation, and the physical location of the school, and to a lesser degree, the students.

If I were you, I would put up a query on another site seeking info about the school, not under your name, and see what turns up.

Just slow down please and be cautious. And let no one rush you into a decision.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another way of looking at it is: How come B with its superior conditions is still looking?
A is just plain slack, but they were in the market at the right time.
I agree with pp. There will be a lot of non-teaching stuff to deal with in that first 6m. If the other living and financial considerations line up say to yourself: 'I'm going' and apply for your Z as soon as the paperwork arrives. You should be paid for Sept even if you can't get there until Week 2 or later. The problem is entirely their delays not yours.
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
I think it has come up in years past.
Nothing specific.
Bud P might weigh in as his exp is way more than mine. I'd go with A. See how they work out.
It's accom airfares paid winter holiday etc that would be exercising my mind right now. Also subject(s) and teaching hours. Although timetable stuff is likely not available until day before classes start.


I've never had an experience like this, though I did cancel an agreement early on when I was stateside and a severe storm tore the roof off my house shortly before I was to leave for China. The school was very understanding. A year later, however, I got an email from the school wanting to know if i was in China. I wonder if FAO's have a list or a database to know who is in-country.
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ebparsa



Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 35
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all.

What I found out yesterday is that cancelling a contract is not as easy as I thought. Apparently the authorities might launch an investigation and school B is telling me that I better build a strong case if I want to go through with it as they will adopt a passive attitude.
They suggest that I give school A a deadline by which they should provide me a wp or revoke my application and if they refuse to do either, then I can escalate it to the local FEB and provide my communications wit them as proof of negligence.

FYI: I have already waited for a month now. I think I am going to give them till the end of the month. It seems too complicated a process to cancel on them.


Last edited by ebparsa on Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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