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Salary expectations vs. reality
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elamericano



Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting qualifications from the US is as expensive as a (cheap) mortgage and in Britain it is not far behind. We know very well what they're worth. Do Gulf state citizens know what qualifications cost, or do either their governments or families always foot the bill?
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15315

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was fortunate. One of my jobs in Jeddah was with full family benefits. From 1996-2002 i was with wife and daughters working for Saudi Arabian Airlines in Saudia City in Khaledeya. Educational allowance for the American School and full ticketing for all of us.

Jobs like that are increasingly hard to find and the Airline no longer hires English teachers.

So it goes.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11324
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elamericano wrote:
Getting qualifications from the US is as expensive as a (cheap) mortgage and in Britain it is not far behind. We know very well what they're worth. Do Gulf state citizens know what qualifications cost, or do either their governments or families always foot the bill?

A university education can be a major hit to one's finances; however, worth is not the same as cost. The worth or value of a job applicant's qualifications refers to their knowledge, skills, and abilities relevant to the position and not how much they paid in total tuition and fees for their credentials. Employers abroad or on home soil shouldn't be expected to base salaries on those costs. Similarly, married employees with young dependents aren't paid more than singles with no children.
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elamericano



Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should they have to or not, they still basically do have to. Failing to make it profitable for Western employees to come here is going to reduce the staff numbers considering all the extra costs that have long had to be laid out for their security.
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siologen



Joined: 25 Oct 2016
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: re: well said!! Reply with quote

Quote:
Failing to make it profitable for Western employees to come here is going to reduce the staff numbers considering all the extra costs that have long had to be laid out for their security.


I could not have put it any better, this is it, in a nutshell. Good post!!
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11324
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elamericano wrote:
Should they have to or not, they still basically do have to. Failing to make it profitable for Western employees to come here is going to reduce the staff numbers considering all the extra costs that have long had to be laid out for their security.

BTW, today's bachelor's degree is equivalent to what a high school diploma was decades ago.

"Profitable" means something different to each person. Not everyone expects KSA to provide them with a golden meal ticket, nor are westerners a monolithic group.

Not surprising, there's been no response to the question asking how far the equivalent of 10,000 SAR per month ($2665 USD / $2030 CAD / £ 2025 GBP) would get you if you were working in your home country.
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siologen



Joined: 25 Oct 2016
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject: re: will have a try.... Reply with quote

Quote:
£ 2025 GBP) would get you if you were working in your home country.


Deleted.


Last edited by siologen on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11324
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question was about finances. In other words, how far that monthly salary would take you in terms of paying for essentials like rent/mortgage, transportation, fuel, utilities, taxes, food... in your home country. I was trying to make the point that a so-called lukewarm salary some expat teachers earn in KSA allows them to save more compared to those same earnings from a job back home.

Anyway, it seems you're skirting the question since this is the second time your response focused on culture/lifestyle comforts -- what you feel you'd miss out on by accepting a job in KSA. Saudi employers, including the shady ones, provide the basics (housing or an allowance, flights, and transportation) and look to hire people who can abide by and manage the country's conservative culture and laws. Those job seekers who feel they can't, set themselves up for a major disappointment if they expect to get paid more for their perceived hardship. Apparently, you fit that profile. Confused
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siologen



Joined: 25 Oct 2016
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject: re: answers Reply with quote

Mod edit
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elamericano



Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
elamericano wrote:
Should they have to or not, they still basically do have to. Failing to make it profitable for Western employees to come here is going to reduce the staff numbers considering all the extra costs that have long had to be laid out for their security.

BTW, today's bachelor's degree is equivalent to what a high school diploma was decades ago.

"Profitable" means something different to each person. Not everyone expects KSA to provide them with a golden meal ticket, nor are westerners a monolithic group.

Not surprising, there's been no response to the question asking how far the equivalent of 10,000 SAR per month ($2665 USD / $2030 CAD / £ 2025 GBP) would get you if you were working in your home country.



Bachelor's degrees were valued more in past decades because Western countries hadn't yet shipped out their entire economic base to the Third World. To say nothing of all the tax advantages and subsidies universities have been handed, which they promptly turned around and used as a means to jack up tuition and make themselves into multi-billion dollar profit schemes.

It's pretty sad to be impressed with the writing, management, and mentoring skills of Boomer employers too. Give me a break. Some of these people are not even physiologically capable of doing their jobs anymore and are getting 70-100k US a year and won't retire.

As for that comment about a "meal ticket", some people might call that a "passable lower middle class salary".
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hash



Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 440
Location: Wadi Jinn

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.
"ESTIMATE" NO LONGER.....HERE IT IS IN BLACK AND WHITE

KSA university offering stunningly low salary. They no longer bother with the term "competitive".
You may as well stay home and sling hash or drive a cab. What an embarrassing disaster for the Kingdom.


Quoting directly from ad:

King Saud " Package Details
12 month contract, with the possibility of renewal
9500 SAR ($2500) monthly basic salary"


I made more than that in the early 1990s......27 years ago.

http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?read=45257


.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11324
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hash wrote:
KSA university offering stunningly low salary.
....
Quoting directly from ad:

King Saud " Package Details
12 month contract, with the possibility of renewal
9500 SAR ($2500) monthly basic salary

http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?read=45257

However, per the ad, that offer is via one of the usual for-profit contracting companies and not the university. It also mentions entry-level requirements of a BA in any subject, a CELTA/equivalent cert, and minimum 2 years' experience, and that "candidates must have completed both high school and university education in one of the following (Anglophone) countries..." Thus, the lukewarm salary.

Job seekers put off by that posted salary will likely move on (or complain on this forum). However, they may find that salary level is the norm for their qualifications in other job ads as well. What you see is what you get. Take it or leave it. Razz
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In the heat of the moment



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 363
Location: SAUDI ARABIA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue which bothers me the most about "9500 SAR ($2500) monthly basic salary" is actually not the direct consequence of receiving less money; it's the indirect consequence of those likely to accept such a meagre sum are exactly those who shouldn't be teaching in the ME - newbies.

The area should be, as it once was, a destination for teachers with a lot of experience, patience, tolerance, and a limited number of years to fill their pension pots, not where those barely out of their teaching nappies end up. It's likely to be a miserable experience, culturally disappointing, frustrating work wise, and put them off the profession for life!
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hash



Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 440
Location: Wadi Jinn

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="nomad soul"]However, per the ad, that offer is via one of the usual for-profit contracting companies and not the university. [/quote]

Correct. I was so underwhelmed by the salary quoted, I failed to give a full commentary on the ad.

Talk about adding insult to injury.....not only is the salary banana-republicish, the job isn't even a direct hire position. A KSA professor mentioned to me recently that they're no longer looking for "quality".....they're just hiring anyone to fill the classes and they hardly care what goes on in the class either.

Does the job even need a BA? Seems to me a kid of 18 with a high school diploma would do just fine.

A BA in "any"" subject?? Any?? I bet there's a couple of majors at least that won't pass muster.

I guess Vinnell was right all along.......forget quality or experience....so long as the teacher can move and breathe, turn pages and communicate with hand signals and colored pictures (e.g. power point), why, that should do the trick.......pathetic



.


Last edited by hash on Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sicklyman



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 920

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hash wrote:
A BA in "any"" subject?? Any??

this may simply be a requirement for offering anyone a contract in Saudi. Japan has a similar arbitrary requirement for expats working there. No degree = no work visa or equivalent.
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